Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Tuesday, June 21, 2005

FORMER EX-GAY OUTRAGED THAT EX-GAY GROUP REFUSES TO REMOVE HIS PICTURE FROM WEBSITE

(Shawn O'Donnell Wants To Be Removed From This Phony Photo, But Exodus Won't Let Him)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tue., June 21, 2005

NEW YORK - Exodus International, a worldwide umbrella group for the ex-gay ministries, was accused today by former member Shawn O'Donnell of misrepresentation for continuing to post his picture on the front page of its web-site, even though he is now an out and proud gay man.

(Shawn O'Donnell)
O'Donnell is included in a group photo at the top of their web site www.exodus-international.org - a photo that has also been used in the group's ads to show that that homosexuality can be cured. Exodus Executive Director Alan Chambers was recently contacted by O'Donnell, who politely asked him to remove or airbrush his likeness from the website. Chambers refused the request and continues to have O'Donnell's picture falsely representing the possibility of sexual orientation conversion.

"I am outraged and appalled that Exodus would mislead and deceive potential clients into believing that I have been healed," said O'Donnell, who was a part of Exodus for five years, leaving the group in 2002. "Exodus' arrogant refusal to remove my likeness has been a source of great anguish and pain, because I know it has surely led to further suffering by vulnerable people. I call on Exodus' sense of decency and fairness to restore my dignity by immediately removing my picture from the front page of their web-site."

Although O'Donnell is just one person in a group picture, he said that his inclusion still has an impact, because it gives people the impression that people can go from gay to straight, which is not what he experienced.

"I can honestly say that in five years, I did not meet one person that I believe had truly changed," said O'Donnell. "What Exodus is doing is damaging lives. They give false hope and when people fail to change they consider killing themselves, as I once did. The harmful work of Exodus almost killed me and I don't want others to suffer."

Wayne Besen, author of Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth, says Exodus has a moral responsibility to replace their group pictures each year. "As a result of the astronomical number of defections in Exodus, any group picture representing those supposedly cured is outdated within a year," said Besen.

"I am willing to bet that a high number of the people in that 1998 photo are now out of the closet and live openly gay lives. O'Donnell's experience speaks to the desperation of Exodus to find success stories where there are none to be found."

O'Donnell, who currently lives in Chicago, says he will dedicate himself to helping people escape the dead end of ex-gay therapy. This month, he appeared in a documentary, "Fish Can't Fly", which focuses on the stories of people who suffered through the ex-gay experience.

"I am committed to educating people about the destructiveness and depravity of these groups that lie to people susceptible to their false message. From my experience, Exodus is a sham and I wish they would stop representing me as a success story."

63 Comments:

These ex-gays are a bunch of phony bastards! I'm straight and I never choosed to be so. So, no gay people choose either.

Wanda
Detroit
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 8:41 PM

An ex-gay sucked my cock at the baths last week. He repented afterwards. But that was Okay. I already came down his "converted" throat. What a bunch of BS.

Justin
Fort Lauderdale
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 8:45 PM

Well, Josh from Mobile, you don't have to read this website if you find it tasteless. The ex-gay "movement" is scary. Forcing children into incarceration camps such as "Love" In Action, is nothing short of child abuse.
posted by John, at 6/21/2005 9:32 PM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by John, at 6/21/2005 9:32 PM

Josh,

I find people like you very offensive.
Because of your religious or personal belief system - you think you can ignore the scientific fact that sexual orientation is biological and just as or more innate as eye color or male pattern baldness. It is not a choice. it the way you are born.
The only reason you want to change it is because of your belief system.
I feel sad for you.

G.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 9:43 PM

Josh,
maybe if you ask Jeebus, he can help you with grammer and spelling too!
Seriously though, if you are still tempted "sometimes" it doesn't seem like Jeebus did that good a job of "healing" you. Maybe Jeebus doesn't care if you are gay or straight...
posted by Pete, at 6/21/2005 9:52 PM

Josh from Mobile, if you are still relatively young and, from childhood, you had a deep, overwhelming and exclusive desire for a gay love, but now Jeebus is keeping you happily and completely celibate because otherwise you would only want men, bully for you and your faith-based willpower.

But "former homosexuals" who, with or without prayer, can move with relative ease into straight relationships are called "bisexuals," and have no business preaching at people whose exclusive attractions are to the same sex.

Further, anybody who gets drunk, fools around with someone of the same sex, and then regrets it in the morning can henceforth call themselves a "former homosexual." So I'm sorry, your story in and of itself is no testimony to the power of Jeebus to change sexual orientation.

Your story IS, though, an insult to all of those gay people who have, since they were kids, prayed every night of their lives to be straight so they could be accepted by you self-righteous bigots, only to fail. You clearly have not walked their path, so get off your high horse.
posted by Trikstyr, at 6/21/2005 10:05 PM

The ex-gay movement is spinning out of control. Exodus, Love in Action and Won out and the Focus's NARTH are all frauds and they know it. No one, I repeat, no one gay, straight or bisexual can change their orientation, it is fixed and instinctive. Too bad religous fundamentalists could not use their brains long enough to figure that out. I really pity the supposed ex-gays because they are the poster children for this embarrasing fraud. Tim W.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 10:23 PM

I am amazed at how they call it a choice. The only real choice is religion. You choose to believe in something that there is no proof exists. You choose to ignore nost of what is written in your scared book, conforming to only those passages that fits your immediate need. You choose to be closed minded saying that it's my way or no way. You haven choosen, you have choosen wrongly.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 10:47 PM

The Bible says eating shrimp is an abomintion. The Bible says grasshoppers have four legs. The bible says wearing a cotton/poly blend is an abomination.

Christians sure do like to cherry-pick their Bibles.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/21/2005 10:56 PM

As a former homosexual, I find this web-sie tasteless. I changed my lifestyle 10 years ago. Sure, I sometimes are tempted. But with the help of Jesus, all things are possible.

Josh, Mobile
posted by Anonymous, at 5:43 PM

Oy! Josh, get a clue! Then get an education.

Oh, that's right - you live in a red state. Nevermind.
posted by IowaNiceGuy, at 6/21/2005 11:08 PM

on a more bland note, when I use a photo of an individual in advertising, I have to obtain a release and compensate them. If not, they can freeze the ad and sue my butt in the meantime...or so I’ve been warned by my legal guru. maybe some other legal guru needs to help out here.
posted by jGregory, at 6/21/2005 11:12 PM

ignore the scientific fact that sexual orientation is biological

I accept that fact.

I also accept the CDC scientific fact that 67% of the AIDs infections in US are caused by male/male sex. Justin's bath house antics are the primary reason we on the Christian right deplore the behavior (not the orientation) of gay men.

Stop spreading disease, guys, and you'll get accepted into society a lot easier.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 12:02 AM

The concept of an "ex-gay"movement is very bizarre to me. In my own experience the vast majority of these persons are suffering from a religious snow job. The desire to belong to a group "Bible-believing Christians" overwhelms the individual and can induce such a person to repress a fundamental part of their nature like sexual orientation. This may work in the short term, but as the ex'Ex-Gay' movement shows, it is not permanent. The vast majority of these people, like myself, finally understand that God made me like I am, and does not require that I change.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 12:07 AM

Oh, please, anonymous. My partner (in my heart, my husband) and I have been faithful since the day we met in 1995. We were married in Portland, Oregon in April 2004 and you on the Christian Right (which is neither) condemned us. I assure you, we have spread no disease and you still hate us.
posted by Charles, Silver Lake, L.A., at 6/22/2005 12:10 AM

Josh from Mobile,

Sorry, Josh, but you are sadly mistaken. You haven't changed at all. What you have done is either refrained from having sex with other men or you are having sex with woman. You are not divorced from your gay orientation because of that.

If I, a gay man, and a woman were the only two people left on the planet and had to repopulate, I could still perform the function of impregnanting a woman. I have the equipment to do so. That act, however, doesn't make me a heterosexual.

I have asked many ex-gays one simple question: When you have sex with a woman, what are you fantasizing about. Every single one of them admitted to thinking about men in order to achieve orgasm. That is a changed lifestyle?

Josh, you can play your mind games with yourself all you wish, but you won't ever be a heterosexual. Ever. You will be a homosexual until the day you die.

So tell me, Josh, who is really abusing their sexual nature here?
posted by Seth Chadwick, at 6/22/2005 12:24 AM

I also accept the CDC scientific fact that 67% of the AIDs infections in US are caused by male/male sex. Justin's bath house antics are the primary reason we on the Christian right deplore the behavior (not the orientation) of gay men.

Stop spreading disease, guys, and you'll get accepted into society a lot easier.

Ha ha ha ha ha! You Christian right guys are hilarious! Gays aren't accepted because they spread disease? You realize that's what they said about the Jews 500 years ago, right?

If it's spreading disease that's a problem, maybe you rightist Christians should rethink your "abstinence-only" sex ed programs, since numerous studies have shown they more than double the rate of teen pregnancy and greatly increase the number of STDs among teens (who engage in oral and anal sex without protection, thinking it counts as "abstinence").

You have no interest in facts, only those that fit your preconceptions.

Behind the Curtain
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 12:34 AM

" I also accept the CDC scientific fact that 67% of the AIDs infections in US are caused by male/male sex."

Actually, to be completely technical, what spreads AIDS is (unprotected) sex with MEN, whether you are male or female. The group with the LEAST incidences of sexually transmitted AIDS are women who sleep only with women. So I assume, Anonymous, since the only reason you "Christians" dislike certain people is their disease-spreading behavior, perhaps you could lend a hand in advtertising lesbian sex as the best way to go. Right? Didn't think so. Hypocrite.
posted by Trikstyr, at 6/22/2005 1:25 AM

You choose to be a hateful christian. Gay's don't choose their orientation.

Why don't they build 'Ex-Adultry' camps? Or 'Ex-I preached the word of god and banged hookers' Camps?

Todd
Boston
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 6:32 AM

I find it quite ironic and telling about right wing fundamentalists, including adherents of the three major religions. They judge and condemn us for virtually anything that does not fit their distorted view of the world and all its ills created overwhelmingly by heterosexuals, ergo the war in Iraq, famine, genocide on the African continent, human rights abuse on every continent of the world, including our own. Yet, after reading the bible, I find no definitive reference to Jesus Christ ever condemning homosexuality. There is scant reference made by St. Paul...that man should not lie down with man... but [that] is open to interpretation. He was a man, like you and I, not a deity. So by what authority do these zealots deign to judge us? Was it not Jesus who said...judge not and ye shall not be judged? I also read that it is lawful to kill one's wife for adultery or even worse, kill one's children. Who in their right mind could subscribe to such a belief system? The bible is probably the most contradictory piece of fiction ever concocted by man. I fail to see its relevance in today's world. We have seen nothing but hatred and intolerance perpetrated on societies in its name, something that the right wing has perfected to an art form.

Regarding the author who said that we would gain more acceptance into society if we refrained from spreading disease. For his information, we were never accepted into society prior to the AIDS pandemic. This is just another wedge they like to use to divide society. We are the new Jews of the 21st century. I don't hear them condemning heterosexuals who engage in unsafe sex practices either, nor do I hear them condemning the soaring rate of infection among heterosexuals worldwide who did not contract the disease via homosexual sex. I often wonder how [they] would have reacted had AIDS started in the heterosexual community via vaginal sex??

As for Josh, I respect his religious beliefs but if he's "tempted" at times, then clearly he is in denial and reparative therapy has not worked. I do wish we could all see some scientific documenation on the ex-gay ministry's claims backed up by overwhelming support of the APA. Maybe then, I might be able to have a better understanding.

Robert, Bayside, NYC
Robertocucina@earthlink.net
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 7:41 AM

" I also accept the CDC scientific fact that 67% of the AIDs infections in US are caused by male/male sex."

Funny, according to the CDC's June 15, 2005 "Fact Sheet" on HIV/AIDS in this country, only 45% of the total cases (approximately 14,500 out of 31,800) are the result of male/male sex. Therefore what you are "accepting" is a lie.
posted by CPT_Doom, at 6/22/2005 9:25 AM

" I also accept the CDC scientific fact that 67% of the AIDs infections in US are caused by male/male sex."

What does this have to do with me or my friends?? We don't fall in that category.

HIV is caused by unsafe sex - not by being gay.

Should sub-saharan Africans stop being heterosexuals because that is how HIV is spread there?

Should they try to be gay since fewer gays have HIV in africa than straights.

If you can not take responsibility for your own behavior Anonymous - don't blame other gay people.

See - this is the problem with you guys - you make NO SENSE. Your logic does not hold water.

G.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 11:44 AM

I was also in that picture!! If that was the one taken in Seatle at the Exodus Conference, I also was in that picture and now am completely out as an ex-ex-gay. I have been with my partner for 4 years. I would like to call Exodus to be accountable and make an accurate account of each individual that is still active with them and each that is not currently active or has fallen from their program. The public deserves to know!!!!
By the way at least 3 other guys in that photo never changed, even though they stood there and said they did. I can testify that slightly before that conference or just after they all had "inappropriate relations with the same sex." Stop fooling yourselves!! Repent of this hypocrisy!! God loves you just as you are.
posted by Pastor Curtis Smith, at 6/22/2005 12:14 PM

REV. CURTIS SMITH --- PLEASE CONTACT ME RIGHT AWAY WITH YOUR STORY.

WAYNE BESEN
WBESEN@AOL.COM
posted by Wayne Besen, at 6/22/2005 12:36 PM

In response to what Wayne Besen wrote regarding Shawn Odonell's picture at an Exodus Conference:
While I was in the New Hope Residential Program House in 2003 a picture of John Paulk was still proudly displayed as a success story, even though he had already been caught on film by Wayne at a gay bar in Washington, D.C.

Also: Frank Worthen (leader of New Hope Residential "Ex-Gay Program)influenced me to sell my car and move to the live in program promising to make me straight; even though he knew that an overwhelming majority of guys never complete the program.

Frank Worthen told the "ex-gay" guys of my program year horror stories of a guy that left the program and was in subsequently worse car accidents until he was finally killed. Supposedly (according to Worthen) God was trying to warn this guy who was in and out of the program. Is it not clear that these fear-based tactics at keeping people in a program are exactly what cult groups use to keep people in place? We were also told stories about guys who were helped to escape the program and subsequently forced to have sex with ugly old men in exchange for a place to live. After I left New Hope I lived in terrible fear that God would place me in a car accident, killing my body to save my soul. This fear paralyzed me until I worked through horrible psycholgical abuse and realized I had been brain washed.

When I was asked to leave New Hope it was a gay affirming church in San Francisco that picked me up and gave me a place to live until I saved enough money to get my own apartment. And the elder in the gay affirming church who took me in never once tried to get me to have any type of romantic or sexual relationship with him.

The "ex-gay" group took my money from the sale of my car, kicked me to the curb, and offered no help in making a new life after their distorted, psychologically abusive program led me to suicidal thoughts and hospitalization in a psych ward in Marin County, CA. Now which group showed God's true, uncoditional love? You decide.
posted by Kennon Wallis, at 6/22/2005 12:41 PM

You can contact me if you have any questions or comments at;
Kennonwallis@aol.com
posted by Kennon Wallis, at 6/22/2005 12:52 PM

I had an aunt that was so light skinned she could pass for white.
In a world still full of white bigotry and Jim Crow-she was born black but LOOKED white.
If she was acting and talking and walking white to her white peers...she was white.
But she never really was and couldn't LIVE like a black person in the world she wanted.
A world where she could be black and honest and not have it hurt her to be black.
But it's hard to be black in a white owned world, where white people wanted to own black sexuality and be in charge of how others saw black sexuality.
A gay person passing for not gay doesn't make them hetero.
It just means they are fooling other people who are too arrogant to think there is any other way to be or live.
Ex gays have been fooled into thinking that being hetero is an ideal and being gay isn't.
And since it's easier to be hetero, it's not hard to make someone think their lives would be easier.
I"m sure Christians like to make Jews think that being Christian or at least acting like you're not Jewish would be easier.
Certainly might have been true during the Holocaust.
Arrogance is a wasteland.
Neither Jews, nor gays, nor light blacks owe anyone else their identity.
Heterosexuals love taking gay identity away and then bashing gay people with it.
It's not only claiming being right, but claiming truth.
Only GAY people can do that.
My aunt, didn't hate the way white people lived.
Just hated the way white people made HER live.
Gay people have the same right. To hate how heterosexuals want to force them to live.
There is no law in nature or man that says anyone of us owns the spirit and god given breath of another human being.
posted by Regan, at 6/22/2005 2:15 PM

I've heard a lot of lies about homosexual persons from Christian moral majority types, who are NEITHER.*

They go ON and ON about how bad it is to be non-hetro - because it is in the bible. But they happily ignore the other and much more stringent admonishments to be 'forgiving, just, kind, compassionate, charitable, etc.'

It says there to Love thy neighbor as thyself and Judge Not it does NOT say, to make your neighbor's life a misery because you disagree with his sexual orientation.

If that is the way that they love thy neigboy, makes me wonder, how do they ever manage to love themselves?

* yes, I know, I am sterotyping Christian fundies. Guess what, I don't really care. I have seen more decent behavior out of those that the MM types dare to call 'evil' and 'depraved' than from the MM's themselves.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 2:25 PM

Can't any of you who have been so exploited and ripped-off by the ex-gay 'ministries', like the guy who was coersed into selling his car and ended up in a psych. ward, SUE those bastards for fraud or practicing medicine without a license? I'm sure some tough lawyers, gay or hetero, would do it pro-bono. Even if you didnt win in court, at least you would have the satisfaction of fighting back and maybe making THEIR lives hell for a change!!
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 2:46 PM

I am an out proud gay man with a partner of 12 years. We belong to a very liberal Southern Baptist church in Memphis that accepts us and loves us for who we are. As Christians we are called to love as Christ loves - and that is all people unconditionally, nothing less. Anything less and we are not showing the love that we claim to have.
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 4:49 PM

I have considered exactly what you are talking about, because it is exploitation, and practicing psycology whithout a liscence. It is in violation of the American Psychological Association which says that it does harm to try and change one's sexual orientation. I am still dealing with the damage and pain inflicted by New Hope, even though I have chosen to forgive them and not live in a personal "victim mentality." Something should be done, but the state of California has a statute of limitations of one year. Since my situation happened two years ago, they seem to have a loop hole. I don't think that would work if it was medical malpractice though. I am not a lawyer, but I was told this by the legal advise of an attorney in LA through a friend.

The Guy Who Sold His Car And Ended Up in a Psych Ward Due To Mental Anguish Inflicted By An "Ex-Gay" Program
Kennon Wallis
Email: Kennonwallis@aol.com
posted by Kennon Wallis, at 6/22/2005 5:01 PM

About three years ago I was in a monogamous gay relationship. We were together for four years. By many standards it would be considered an ideal relationship. However, when I would pray to God, something wasn't right. Obviously I cannot write my whole testimony here, but I will say that I felt God wooing me. Within a month I gave my life to Him. I did not speak to an ex-gay brainwashing group or anyone ex-gay. I simply drew closer to God by singing, reading the bible and praying. That simple.
I didn't feel God asking me to go straight. Not at first. I did feel He was asking me to draw closer to Him. I was willing and after a couple of weeks I realised I couldn't continue my gay relationship even though it was what I knew and who I thought I was. I had to completely trust God. I had been "out" for 12 years.
The ex-gay group I sought out after that was simply a support group for Christians who struggle with relationships and sex (That would be everyone of us because we're human).
I love my support group. I have new brothers and sisters in Christ and they are no different than other people at church with their own background and struggle who have experienced the transforming power of Christ. God blessed me with loving male relationships (non-sexual) and my craving for men has subsided.
Has the temptation or desire gone away completely? No. It is the thorn in my side that Paul mentions in the bible, 2 Corinthians 12:7. I prayed for many years for God to make me straight and "take it away" Guess what? He does answer prayer, but on His terms. It's a process and when I'm tempted it only keeps me seeking God all the more. And no, I'm not suppressing it.
We Americans want it easy and now! But it's not about us, it's about Him. Being gay is not a choice. I do believe it's an orientation and circumstances in my young life led me to seek male affection which I sexualized later.
Choosing God is the choice and He is so real to me that I would be a "hypocrite" if I read all these statements and said nothing. So, there it is.
I can only state that the 2 opposing views seem to have incensed the people and I can't help but wonder if they are even ligitimate or planted "riot starters" In all honesty, I'll be surprised if this is posted.

Edward
From sunny S. FL
posted by Edward, at 6/22/2005 5:03 PM

I consider both Shawn and Wayne personal friends. I can assure you that this article was not bogus. I was in the same "ex-gay" program as Shawn.

As for following God -there is nothing in my life more important than God. I know that I honestly tried everything: three "ex-gay" programs, demonic deliverance by Benny Hinn in July 2001, family counseling, etc. to become straight and none of it ever worked. I love God with all my heart. If God wants me straight, then I am totally OK with that. But I have found that God created me this way, just as God created animal species of numerous types that engage in same gender sex. Science has proven that it is "natural," and I belive that God made it that way. Jesus said that you would "know the truth and the truth will set you free." Now I know the truth and I have finally been set free. God did deliver me from drug abuse, depression, and sexual addiction, but He made me homosexual.

The Guy Who Sold His Car And Ended Up In The Psych Ward Due To Mental Anguish Inflicted By New Hope "Ex-Gay" Resdiential Program
Kennon Wallis
Email: Kennonwallis@aol.com
posted by Kennon Wallis, at 6/22/2005 5:22 PM

If someone had the time, it would be really interesting to take the picture from Exodus and find how many people on it no longer consider themself to be ex-gay. Can you imagine simply standing in front of a Love Won Out conference and passing out the picture they use with all the ex-ex-gays circled in red. You wouldn't have to say anything else - let their own PR backfire on itself.

Timothy
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 5:40 PM

Dear Edward:

Would God biologically create you a gay man and then have you live in the misery of trying to deny it your whole life? If God created you gay, then it is like slapping God in the face and saying that He made a big mistake to deny who you are. Listen, you can be a follower of God and embrace who God made you without being some pervert that has sex with anything that moves. Could it not be possible that certain Scriptures from the Bible that really deal with idolatry and cult prostition have been wrongly interpreted to get to the view that what God created is wrong? Didn't people use the Bible to promote slavery, segragation, male domination of women, etc. So why couldn't we say that the Bible was misintrpreted. Have you studied what many theolgians now say about the cultural and historical backgrounds of so called "anti-gay" Scripture? John Boswell, and so many have shown this to be the case. Personally I believe that the Bible is God's inspired, inerrant, authoritative Word. However, imperfect people often impose their own cultrurally biased interpretations and applications.
Kennon Wallis
Email: Kennonwallis@aol.com
posted by Kennon Wallis, at 6/22/2005 5:51 PM

This made me chuckle.
PTA calls for MIA PFOX; PFOX says FU
posted by Anonymous, at 6/22/2005 6:03 PM

Ha Ha!!! I was just reading the Bible this morning, and I found the part where it says grasshoppers and crickets have four legs. God that's funny.

By the way, in case nobody read Besen's book, he says we should politely and respectfully go to ex-gay meetings with our partners just to give the clients/victims there a different perspective, since they are only being told that all gays and lesbians are evil, licentious ingrates.

I was just wondering if anybody has tried this? To make a peaceful effort to try to reach the victims of ex-gay groups? My bf and I plan on doing it sometime soon.
posted by Ryan, at 6/22/2005 10:03 PM

Justin's bath house antics are the primary reason we on the Christian right deplore the behavior (not the orientation) of gay men.

Well, "Anonymous," aside from your spurious use of "statistics," what you have said is so clearly a load that it is laughable. Why is it OK for you to "deplore" what gay men do, yet most gay men I know are almost physically sickened by the very thought of female genitalia, and even more so by the idea of straight sex, and they have the common decency not to foist this view on others?

And since when is your opinion (along with selective quotation of a religious book) a valid basis for a bigoted and discriminatory political agenda? Just because some straight guys also engage in reckless sexual behavior, cheat on their female partners, have sex with prostitutes, etc. etc. does not give me license to harangue them or persecute them politically.

The false distinction many "Christians" have drawn between loving the "sinner" but hating the "sin" is a transparent form of bigotry, pure and simple, and it is time that people like you stop pretending otherwise.

And people on the "Christian" right have still failed to explain to me this monomaniacal fixation of theirs on one particular (and disputed, especially when you read different translations) verse of Leviticus, yet ignore all of that same chapter's admonitions against other things that have been mentioned in previous comments, such as shellfish, playing with "pigskins" (football, anyone?), planting two crops in the same field (I guess most farmers are doomed to hell), having sex with a women on her period, etc. etc.

You claim a "literal" adherence to the Bible, but it is purely selective, and those of us who disagree with you can be led to only one conclusion: that your objection is motivated by animus, pure and simple, and not out of concern for our immortal souls.

--MATT RAYMOND
posted by Matt, at 6/23/2005 10:43 AM

I have a unique set of qualifications as a gay. One of which was having a very long, hard phase living in the “D” mode: Denial. I’m way past that now. I’m in the “C” mode: Celibacy.

As I see it from interaction with my friends I discovered the Ministries have suggested gay men to get involved with a woman and live a life as close to heterosexuality as possible. I have noticed what has resulted has been near universal marital disasters that has wrecked not only the gay person but wrecked the lives of all involved in the charade.

Plus, I ask you, what woman would want to marry a gay man?

Their only other suggestion now is for me to stay celibate for the rest of my life.

Either suggestion is a living hell isn’t it? I’m not sure God would want me to live unhappily.

It’s reassuring to see gay/lesbian couples in long-term relationships. Why doesn’t the public understand or know about these examples of loving, caring monogamous relationships instead of constantly linking gays with dangerous sexual practices?
posted by cowboy, at 6/23/2005 12:33 PM

What Matt Raymond said---Ditto!!!
You go girl!
posted by Anonymous, at 6/23/2005 3:17 PM

"he can help you with grammer and spelling too!"

Say Whaaaaaat!?

LOL you dumb ass.
posted by Queers in Action, at 6/30/2005 3:10 AM

I am gay and a Christian, and due to my Fundo-Evangelical upbringing, I was taught this narrow-minded, one-sided view of "Biblical Inerrancy", one-sided that is, because it is a HUMAN understanding of inerrancy. What I mean essentially, is that you don't have to put your brain in at the "brain check" like you check in your coat when you enter a house of worship. And I found out that God is real, but He doesn't pull sadistic "bait-and-switch" games on people. If you're gay, straight or somewhere in between, be happy and walk in that as you would want to be treated. After my one year of what I call "Ex-Gay" activity, which included exposure to an Exodus group in NYC called L.I.F.E Ministry
and going to be prayed over in various church groups to be exorc ised, I started going to see a secular therapist for 6 months and I realized that to have a Christian faith, God likes it when you ask a LOT of questions and when you continue to ask Him to show you more and more truth (when you are receiving from God personally, I mean; not being spoon-fed by some group and their ideologies). God is not illogical. When we are told to worship Him in spirit
and in truth, that means with EVERY part of us, including our minds. So I think it is very important that we do not become a new societal version
of Medieval Europe under total eccesastical control of learning, faith and EVERYTHING. At some point, Modern Christians need to, and I pray SOON, realize that God is sovereign and does not need them to work His purposes out for Him. When people do that, the end result is very damaging. Christian people (i.e. co-dependent fundies) need to take thier hands off of what other people are going through in God and let them space enough to experience God for God's sake. I think that the greater effect in prayer comes when a person sees another going through a trial and that person asks
God, "I just pray that YOUR will be done in that person's life". (you don't hear a lot about liberty in Christ anymore, at least in that sense). I am now in a very sweet relationship with another Christian man for over 2 years now. My relationship with God is better than ever because I am being honest and not trying to cover myself up with fig-leaves LOL. It has been a tumultuous and bumpy ride
to get to this place, but I tell you what, to know what I know now it has been worth the trip. My prayers go to Shawn and to everyone who has been affected by this "Ex-Gay" movement and to those who have been victimized by religiously induced and internalized false guilt.

Peace,
Harry in MI.
posted by Haray004, at 7/08/2005 1:13 PM

The exodus-affiliated ministry I receive services from has never preached hate toward practicing homosexuals. They have never called them evil. They recognize that people should have a choice of how to respond to their attractions. We believe acting on our attractions is a sin- we have that right. We recognize that we do not have the right to condemn others who do not believe that. There are those of us who are responding to God calling us out of this gay identity. I don't believe I was born this way, but rather circumstaces in my childhood and adolesence 'oriented' me to same-sex attractions. My attractions have not changed. That's okay for me. My identity is in Christ now. I believe homosexuality is not okay for me. One's view on homosexuality is not the most important thing in your relationship with God. The most important thing is having a relationship with God through Jesus. He will give you answers to your life including your sexuality.
posted by Anonymous, at 12/03/2005 2:59 PM

I have a question? If it's okay for same sex, sexual relationships then why aren't same sex couples able to conceive?

Please Share
posted by Anonymous, at 6/18/2006 5:16 PM

Hearing a homosexual say the words I have always known really makes that person on their way to being a productive member of society. It's so true anonymous that experience and behaviors in person's adolescence and childhood cause some to not be strong enough mentally to advance as a fully functioning adult. I believe everyone has sexual attractions of the same sex growing up (because that's who we are around the most when these feelings start occuring)but it's those who are capable of being fully functioning adults who can grow out of that and live productive lives. It's just sad that some people want so bad for it to be biological so that they will have an excuse for their adult perversions.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2006 4:46 PM

I have a question? If it's okay for same sex, sexual relationships then why aren't same sex couples able to conceive?

Because men don't have ovaries.
Or vaginas.
posted by Nathan in KY, at 12/31/2006 8:53 PM

Josh,

As a proud lesbian I feel sorry for you. Even if I could change, I would choose not to. I love who I love and I don't care if she is a woman. I know God would not condemn someone for the simple act of loving someone else, gay or straight. We're not hurting anyone, but we are giving love, and if we're going to be shut out of Heaven for that, Heaven is not a place I want to spend eternity.
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