Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Tuesday, August 02, 2005

It always amazes me when lazy right wing charlatans posing as legitimate researchers come to me to help them with their work. Just yesterday, for example, Dr. Warren Throckmorton asked me for contact information for John Evans, the co-founder of Love in Action. He is working on a sleazy and illegitimate project to rewrite the history of the ex-gay ministries by saying that the founders of the movement, who now all denounce it, were not actually the founders. This absurd and offensive historical revisionism is an effort to make the embarrassing past of the ex-gay ministries seem more palatable.

After I rejected Throckmorton's bizarre appeal for me to contribute to his charade he wrote me back saying, "So I can let folks know that I tried to reach Evans to get both sides and you obstructed the way?" Here is what I said to him:

"No, what you can do is something foreign to you - real research. It is amazing how I found John Evans and I'm not a doctor. In fact, it didn't even take that long. Ever hear of the Internet? I just object to using my research skills to help you in any way.

You know, I put you right up there - but not quite as bad - with Paul Cameron. There is something particularly sleazy and stomach-turning about those who hide their fundamentalism behind the veil of science. Fake researchers are the lowest life form of right winger. It takes a diabolical and profoundly disturbed individual to do the type of work you do.

So, when people ask why you didn't talk to Evans, don't blame me. Tell them the truth, that you were either too lazy or incompetent to get the job done. I am not your research assistant and have no obligation to abet what I know to be a cynical effort to twist the facts to support right wing political positions."

Can you imagine the nerve of this man whose quack-like work is designed to give a scientific veneer to anti-gay politics? Furthermore, "obstruction" is getting in the way of one's work. Choosing not to help a person spin lies and myths is no way obstructing or impeding dishonorable and unscrupulous efforts. It is simply my choice not to collaborate or be an accomplice to a blatantly anti-gay farce. And, for the record, I have given Evans' contact information to several real reporters, so I am hardly adverse to having people talk to him.

45 Comments:

Way to go Wayne. I'm glad you stand up to these assholes.

George
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 11:50 AM

Good job Wayne. I totally agree - these guys are very sleazy - they do not respect the truth or the facts. They are propagandists.
No different from the propagandists in Germany in the 1930s.

G.
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 12:23 PM

dr. doolittle and the rest of these quackjobs live in a fantasy world of total disconnect---imagine the likes of him coming to Wayne for HELP!!!??
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 1:15 PM

Did he at least offer to name you in his "thanks" section?
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 5:16 PM

Did he at least offer to credit you? ;o)
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 5:16 PM

Wayne, I'm an "ex-ex-gay" myself (well, I never quite attained any real ex-gay status!!:), and know Dr. Throckmorton from my time at GCC.

I'm not sure that your post does justice to the entire exchange--could you post the dialogue you two had, so everyone could see if he was being unfair in his request?

I have read your book and respect much of what you do, but I am frustrated with both sides using massively slanted rhetoric that only fans the flames.

By the way, I posted a similar request for Dr. Throckmorton:
http://wthrockmorton.blogspot.com/2005/08/wayne-throws-tantrum.html

Thanks,
ck
posted by CK, at 8/02/2005 6:26 PM

CK

I did post the full exchange. It was a one lie request. By the way, I love Ani, too!
posted by Wayne Besen, at 8/02/2005 6:49 PM

Thanks, Wayne. It sounds like you're mostly focusing on your beliefs that

a) Dr. Throckmorton is not a good researcher and;
b) He should do his own research anyway.
c) If you did help him, he'd only 'spin' the facts, thus undermining the truth.

and not the tenor of his request to you.

I understand your position better now. I disagree with some of the pejorative terms, like "quack", but I understand. Thanks!

And yes, Ani does rock!
posted by CK, at 8/02/2005 7:04 PM

The good doctor is once again trying to belly up to the fundamentalist Christian money trough. You can hear him snorting like a pig for his money.
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 7:52 PM

If these "charlatans" have nothing to hide, why don't they step forward and provide the APA with the scientific evidence to proove that they can successfully convert homosexuals to heterosexuals? Or why don't they allow representatives from the APA to attend their meetings and observe the methods used in converting these men, women and children? If they are claiming they have a high success rate, then why hasn't the APA endorsed it or demanded evidence?

Robert, Bayside, NYC
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 8:51 PM

I understand, and share, your rage towards Mr. Throckmorton, but you may have missed an opportunity to have a line of communication with him, and maybe even meet him one-on-one, which could have created some significant cognitive dissonance for him. Your response may have instead reinforced his view of gay people and homosexuality as an "enemy." Each of us is different of course, but personally I would have responded more along the lines of a straightforward description of my feelings. It seems that the response you took is more like a platter of abuse. If you want people to stop being mean, being respectful (but still completely honest) and trying to engage the person in dialogue can be very powerful. This may sound really mushy and idealistic, but I think a touch of compassion can help melt some of these nutty right wingers out of their persecutive trance. Their meanness is probably an act-out of a lack of love in their own history. As a practical matter, I also would not necessarily have helped him -- indeed, I also would not want have any part in abetting his cause. However, his contacting me, even if offensive, could have been, as I mentioned, a potentially very important connection. Imagine meeting the guy for coffee, and maybe getting a chance to honestly describe your feelings, experiences, and perspectives to him. Please keep this in mind in the future. Please otherwise keep in mind that verbal abuse may actually harm your cause.
posted by Anonymous, at 8/02/2005 10:44 PM

Robert from Bayside raises an excellent point, if reparative therapy actually changes sexual orientation where are the published studies (other than propaganda) verifying the results or "success" rates. And really, how could one measure success without a stimulus/response scenerio, the ex-gay change claims are entirely subjective and based on a distorted view of religion, not science and psychology. If science wants to investigate changing sexual orientation, it will take some investigation of hormonal influences on the brain and a genome study. Sexual orientation is not psychologically based, it is physical and hormonal response that creates both sexual and emotional attraction. Anyone with any basic scientific and psychological education would know that something as complex as sexual attraction and orientation cannot be changed through unproven therapies or any type of religious faith. The religous component creates a state of shame, denial, repression and guilt, not a change in sexual orientation, a form of brainwashing is all it really is. And one that makes evangelical christian groups a ton of money. Tim W.
posted by Anonymous, at 8/03/2005 12:16 AM

Wayne you are so fuuny,
a real propaganda Machine!
Go to Throckmortons blog,
to hear his responce
http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=156
posted by Anonymous, at 8/03/2005 10:50 AM

YOU are the one who's so 'fuuny', as well as being an ignoramous. You obviously didnt read Wayne's book! The only 'propaganda machine' is dr.Shlockmorton and his unproffessional, totally discredited ilk!! I wouldn't waste my time reading anything he has to say.
Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at 8/03/2005 11:41 AM

Throckmortons article say nothing!
1- List the fact that some self hating "ex-gays" did not return to homosexuality... is that considered scientific evidence? Hey, I know about self accepting and openly gay men who have had no sex at all in years! that does not make them "ex-gays". I also know about so called "hetherosexual" dudes who go to sex clubs, solicit sex online, have extramatiral affair, and while their families and "friends" don't know nothing about them, they claim they are living "up to their expectations" (?)

2- It is OBVIOUS that Exodis is felling the preasure, that is why they are trying to use legalism to justify who have been "officially" involved with them. History is writen alway on the eyes of the beholder, and right now Exodus is trying to make up a history, so the can only justify their existence basen on the two or Three who claim no to be gay anymore.

3- Wayne is right about no wanting to collaborate with any of these morons. Calling anyone a propaganda machine should be used carefully, since all what exodus and the people who had kidnaped the Christian faith to try to impose personal views, fears and agendas, is purely based on pure propaganda. I think that Wayne has been corageous to speak up about no wanting to be a collaborator -and why- and I respect him even more now!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/03/2005 11:50 AM

Just because no brutal dictator or facist regime is currently advertising for a Dr. Josef Mengele doesn't mean that there aren't people living right now who would be more than happy to fill the role if it became available.
posted by Chris L., at 8/03/2005 12:31 PM

Well, Chris L., wait and see. If we don't speak up and stop this non-sense right the way, the danger that someone like Mengele come aroud doesn't look too far in the current political environment. With all those freaks trying to impose their views, it really looks dangerous to me!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/03/2005 1:30 PM

Poor Wayne,

Sits at home all day thinking about ex gays! Well I guess he is not poor, since he is making big bucks from his ex gay attacks!

It would be of interest how Wayne would respond, to a video of him,
in a less than flattering
"situation"!

Given the attacks on on ex gays I am sure some wil began taping there own "videos"!

Find out where gay activist hang out, and start taping.

Mike Rogers, gay activist and S/M, bare backing lover should also behave!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/04/2005 9:37 AM

Wayne You SUCK!!!!!!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/04/2005 9:37 AM

Wayne,

I am a fomer homosexual, and I am now married! I am a med student at Brown Univeristy.I am Jewish and I have never been to an ex gay camp!
But I am proud of my life as it is!
Change is possible,Wayne and no one will stop this "new civil rights movement".
posted by Jonathan, at 8/04/2005 9:42 AM

Gay men are self hating "Heterosexuals"

EX heterosxual's should embrace there sexuality and stop being so self hating!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/04/2005 9:45 AM

Can you imagine being treated by a graduate of Brown Medical School who is a former homosexual?

(((shudder)))
posted by cowboy, at 8/04/2005 11:38 AM

"Find out where gay activist hang out, and start taping."
That is actually the cheapest garbage you people, self hating weirdos use. We are proud of our community as it is, and if it hurst so much that someone tell you in your face to dtop lying , deal with it! Wayne rocks!!!

"Mike Rogers, gay activist and S/M, bare backing lover should also behave!"
Please! If you are saying there, maybe you were there doing the same too. Is this your "argument" ?is this the best way you can "deffend" your cause? Don't make me laught!
posted by Anonymous, at 8/04/2005 1:34 PM

Ha...me a bareback lover...
OK, I admit it...I barebacked once in 1986....

Wayne...it's fun to see the anonymous people get pissed off at your incredible work on behalf of the gay community.

Keep up the great job!

Mike
posted by Mike Rogers, at 8/04/2005 3:02 PM

Johnathon, above (at 6:42am), says that change is possible and that he was formerly homosexual and is now married.

Many men are married but still desire men.

Johnathon, if truly your sexual desire changed from attraction to men to attraction to women, it would be MOST helpful if you would describe in detail HOW that change took place. And, since you say you didn;t go to a 'camp', what started the change, if not 'therapy'?

How did the change of desire take place? Did you go through a phase of desiring BOTH sexes, or did you go through a phase of desiring NEITHER before you started desiring women?

What method did you employ to bring about this change?
posted by Phil, at 8/04/2005 5:39 PM

wayne,you are a sick men whom need treatment, I cam help with that.
I read your book and put into the garbage.(pure garbage)
posted by Anonymous, at 8/04/2005 11:32 PM

Funny, I think that the book is great! The fact that you maight not like Wayne's book, doesn't mean that the book is bad. I read "Left Behind" and I wasn't even able to place it in the garbage, because there was a danger that someone actually could pick it up and read it! go figure...
posted by Anonymous, at 8/05/2005 2:27 AM

Sorry Jonathan, I don't buy your story of being a former homosexual=now happily married. I would encourage you to analyse the root cause of your shame whether that be family, church or peers and deal with it. There is a lot of assistance out there to help you live, embrace and appreciate your sexuality. You do not have to pretend to be something you are not to be accepted. Have a serious look at it. Living in a closeted sham of a marriage is not the way to go my friend. Tim W
posted by Anonymous, at 8/05/2005 8:25 AM

Quite a string.

For the record, there have long been articles of people changing their Same Sex Attraction, all the way back to Albert Ellis.

Spitzer's recent article is an example, and as will all research, it has it flaws and limitations. It demonstrates that SOME people do change, significantly and with little or no negative side effects (they are happier).

I agree that self-righteous vomiting on people we disagree with does not help.

Some people change, some don't. Just tell the truth and let people make informed decisions.
posted by Anonymous, at 8/10/2005 11:13 AM

Just like Jonathan, anonymous, I do not believe that a person truly changes their sexual orientation. It is just plain bullshit. Homosexuals changing to heterosexual is just as impossible as the other way around. People who "change" go back into the closet. I could do that today and claim I'm heterosexual, but my brain, body and all it's physiology is sexually attracted to the same sex. No religion, therapy or denial is going to change that fact. People who claim they've changed should spend more time on accepting themselves and not trying to live up to someone else's view (ie religion) on how they ought to be. It's obvious I'm not convinced about someone being an ex-gay/former homosexual, it is just not possible or true. And really, why should a person change one's sexual orientation towards the same sex. There is absolutely nothing shameful or immoral about it and the world needs to start recognizing that before more lives go into despair due to hatred and prejudice. Tim W.
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