Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Tennessee: 'Close Down Your Ex-Gay Ministry!'

The state Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities has ordered the closing of what it calls two unlicensed personal care facilities run by a Christian group that counsels gays to give up homosexuality.

The state inspected two facilities in Memphis on Aug. 19 and determined Love In Action International Inc. was providing housing, meals and personal care for mentally ill patients without a license, according to a subsequent letter to the organization from the Department of Mental Health. The department gave Love In Action until Sept. 23 to cease operation of the facilities and apply for a state license.

If the organization were to continue operating the facilities past the Sept. 23 deadline, it would face criminal penalties that include fines of up to $500 and six months in jail for each day the facilities are determined to be in violation of state laws.

Additionally, it has been revealed by former Love In Action victim Peterson Toscano that Love In Action's leader, John Smid, is misleading clients by falsely claiming to be a reverend. In fact, Smid has no such credentials and is not the holy man he purports to be.

180 Comments:

Great to see that this scam is being closed down, hopefully for good. It is nothing but a contrived cult-like brainwash that preys on vulnerable people takes their hard earned cash, and diminishes self esteem. Now if the state of Colorado will just start probing Focus Pocus, where most of this problem is brewing, a great service to society will be done. No doubt you will find Smid at a local cruising spot, only at night of course while the devoted christian wife is at home with the progeny. Tim W.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at 9/20/2005 9:06 AM

Mentally ill patients?!?!?! The gay victims arent the mentally ill ones, these fascist "christian" fuckhead scam artists are the real mentally ill ones! In this case the wackos are literally in charge of the 'asylum'.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2005 9:19 AM

Homosexuality is NOT a mental illness. All the experts agree.

The "Christian" Right wants to hijack our great nation and turn it into a theocracy like Iran.

They are Dominionists, they are NOT real Christians.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2005 9:53 AM

"Mentally ill patients?!?!?! The gay victims arent the mentally ill ones, these fascist "christian" fuckhead scam artists are the real mentally ill ones!"

Ah, but because they claim that homosexuality is a mental disease, then they have to be licensed mental health specialists, don't you see? If they didn't claim that, then they don't need the licensing (unless some of the campers are suffering from a real mental disorder -- depression, for instance -- in which case, they have to be licensed anyway).

Ed Drone
posted by Ed Drone, at 9/20/2005 10:10 AM

Good point, Ed.

Seeing mental illness where there is none is mental illness.

I wonder if there's a term that describes this sort of mental illness. It seems related to xenophobia.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2005 11:34 AM

Today, the world is indeed a better place. Just the idea to close down a infimous place like that gives hope to this world. In the past, government workers would be affraid to touch the "untochable" A.K.A. the Christina Right, but now, they can see with open eyes the harm that this places are inflicting in people. I wonder why they were NEVER inspected... corruption? it would be interesting to dig in.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2005 11:39 AM

Evidence shows homosexuality may be genetic.

Damn the religious cults, damn them all.

One of the anonymous bloggers here was correct when he said the Christian Right wants to turn us into a theocracy.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2005 11:47 AM

I was all excited when I saw the headline "Tennessee Orders 'Gay Camp' Shut". I actually thought the State had grown a brain, and realized how stupid it was.

But now I read that it's only because of money reasons. Dammit. :(

So I guess they haven't gotten any smarter...
posted by Dan, at 9/20/2005 12:36 PM

Mentally ill patients?!?!?! The gay victims arent the mentally ill ones, these fascist "christian" fuckhead scam artists are the real mentally ill ones

I don't think the state is saying that homosexuality is a mental illness. The reference is to dispensation of medications, including ones used to treat psychiatric conditions, which is what renders the facilities supportive care facilities for "mentally ill" patients. . .LIA/R is running the facilities like in-patient facilities which turns them into mental health facilities. I hope they'll get nailed for the insurance fraud next.
posted by Ol Cranky, at 9/20/2005 1:16 PM

Two more thoughts about "mentally ill."

One. Some of the residents at LIA might have had legitimate mental illnesses that were misinterpreted as or seem to be a part of homosexual desire.

Two: The victims in this case may have been subject to trauma sufficient to cause legitimate sympoms of mental illness, though illness is still a tough word to swallow.

toodles
posted by TerpBlogger, at 9/20/2005 1:58 PM

Thank God mental sewers like this are finally discovered for what they really are.

I wonder how that poor boy we heard so much about is doing. He had to suffer there through the ignorance of his right wing bible thumping parents.

I truly hope that since this toilet is finally closed down, it is poetic justice for this young man and all others that were held in this christen dungeon.

There is no doubt that gays are being attacked on every front in this country.

The organizations that have popped up all over this country in droves, all have the same goal.
That is to set us back 50 years if possible.

On the other hand, during these times we have made many advances, and in some way I feel that this is their (right wing pigs) sort of Custer's last stand.

There is no question that they are feeling more and more vulnerable every day, by their panic to cram the courts with ultra right wing judges.

These are social authoritarians that will be in fixed positions for decades to come.
It's their only hope for narrow mindedness and decisions that hurt and harm us, prevail long after the American public have figured out they were being led into the dark ages on a rail.

However, take hart my brothers and sisters. Though we can never let our guard down ever for one minute, the right wing will never stop us.... unless we let them.

They don't have that kind of power.
The best they can ever do is slow us down from time to time.

We must continue to organize and get some of our lazy asses out of the bars and see to it that all our brothers and sisters, and all our non-homophobic friends are aware of the issues and insist they vote.

Protesting and demonstrating are important they show continuity, but elections are decided by vote counts, that is unless Carl Rove is pulling the strings, and right wing courts stop true vote counts. Thank

God for term limits on the Presidency.

In the mean time lets cut those bastards off at the trail and turn the house and senate over to more reasonable democratic minds in O6.

Only this will stop the bleeding ASAP.
posted by john62716, at 9/20/2005 3:33 PM

John Smid can "technically" use the title Rev. because a Southern Baptist Church gave it to him. He is a "licensed" minister and not an ordained minister. Most licensed ministers can marry people and preach in a specific local church. I don't know if Smid ever claimed to be ordained, but the key thing is that he uses the term Rev in such a way to command authority in the work he does. He is a licensed lay minister and not an ordained minister. In other words he has none of the training of a minister but can use the title. Most licensed ministers do not use the title except within a local congregation. John has broadened the use of his to extend into the media and by doing so misleads people to think that he has the education and oversight that most ministers possess.
posted by Peterson Toscano, at 9/20/2005 4:11 PM

I found this blog via Raw Story and the link to Tennessee shuting the so-called "ex gay" camp.

All I can say is good; it's about time.

The entire ex-gay movement is chilling and from what I've read, is far more unhealthy and damaging than helpful and productive.

The religious right must start leaving gay and lesbian Americans alone.
posted by Christopher, at 9/20/2005 6:38 PM

I don't believe that it states in the Bible that you can't belive in God and/or Jesus if you Gay. Any Church that would turn away homosexuals does not deserve the right to be called a Church.

Jason
posted by Sully, at 9/20/2005 9:30 PM

If being non-straight makes one mentally ill, then how does one explain all the crazy things "straight" people do and all the normal things "gay" people do?
posted by Steve, at 9/21/2005 10:28 AM

None of you want to hear this, I'm sure, because you all seem to hate right-wing Christians. However, I'll say it anyway. I'm a right-wing Christian who teaches high school in a rural Delta town in Mississippi. None of my students are white, and all of them (as far as I know) are Democrats who hate Bush. This, by the by, is why I don't discuss politics in class.

Today in class, I was talking to some of my kids about college--how they'll apply, what they'll need to do and know, what kind of people they'll be dealing with, etc. One of my kids raised a hand and asked, "Will we have to deal with faggots and dykes?" Several other kids, to my shocked ears, used the same terms.

Yeah, all the Democrats in this country are so open-minded about homosexuality. The trouble comes from all those Bush-loving right-wingers. Oh, wait.

Not that any of you will care, or even give this credence....but I just wanted to let you know that this issue isn't solely the political one you so desperately want it to be. And by the way, for such an intelligent crowd, I see a lot of misspellings and grammatical errors. It makes me feel proud to be a dumb right-winger...who knows his own language.
posted by M.C., at 9/21/2005 7:32 PM

MC, thanks for your comments. To clarify, the hostility towards the christian right you may sense from gay people comes from the fact that powerful right wing groups are leading the attack against gays and lesbians. Check out the multi-million dollar groups: Focus on the Family, Concerned Women of America and you will find why we harbour hostility towards these people. Quite frankly, it is hostility well earned by the christian right. But you are right, homophobia and hostility comes from all walks of life, sadly, even our "own" people perpetuate it.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at 9/21/2005 9:24 PM

Regardless of what people think or wish homosexuality was.
The most clinically mentally ill person, or addict or those with genetic disorders they can pass on to their children...

They can still get married.

Which means homosexuals can't be made exceptions for the option to each other.
There are no restrictions based on behavior...or mental or emotional problems for marriage.

No matter what, the objections to gays and lesbians marrying has no rational or logical basis already stated, that won't come out hypcritical, bigoted, or contradictory.
Every single time.
posted by Regan, at 9/23/2005 6:52 PM

I've never read such vile, hateful and bigoted comments in my life. Why are all liberals so mean? As the bumper sticker says, "Mean people suck." That means you guys.
posted by foomonkey, at 9/24/2005 8:16 AM

Hey FooMonkey, visit the good christian sites if you want vile hateful comments. Enjoy.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at 9/24/2005 9:18 AM

MC I find it terribly hard to believe that of all the questions you students may have about attending collage "Will we have to deal with faggots and dykes?" would have been any near the top of their list.

This does sound much like something you trumped up to make your argument.

Having said that, if in fact what you claim is any near the truth, your response should have been, "No my class mates faggots and dykes will have to put up with you!"

You see MC you should have reminded them of their history, and all the black fore fathers that went before them that got lynched, beaten, spit at, killed, and suffered all manor of ignorant hate just because they were black.

You should remind them that still in this day and age there are folks who's minds have been warped by folk they are told to look up to.

You might also remind them that some of these people even lead and pastor churches that are suppose to be teaching the love and tolerance that Jesus was famous for, but in fact teach their members to seek gays out for special doses of hate.

You might tell them that if they just sit and think for a moment that it will be very clear to them, that it is not the gay students that seek "them" out to shoot, stab, steal, rob, plunder, beat, and some times kill "them",..... It's the other way around.

You might also remind them that it doesn't feel any better to the gay students they may come to know in collage to be called faggots and dykes, then it does for them to be called Niggers, Jungle Bunnies, or Nignogs.

If they are truly asking the derogatory questions you say they are, you MC might take another look at how well YOU have taught them.

That's right MC, the mere fact that they even asked such a question may be more of a reflection on YOU than it is on them.
posted by john62716, at 9/24/2005 1:22 PM

john62716,

This is my first year teaching high school. The first nine weeks is not even over yet. So, your charge that perhaps I'm the one who is making my students bigoted holds no water. I'll forgive you your ignorance, since I didn't put that in my original post. (Although my roommate, who is black, will no doubt find a charge of racism leveled against me very amusing.)

I will not, however, forgive you your ignorance of what would happen to a white man who used such derogatory racial terms, even in an instructional way, to a class full of children who were of that race. I would have seen my contract terminated like THAT.

For your information, that question my students asked was actually the second one out of their mouths, right after the question "Is college any harder than high school?" Also, I did tell them to never use those terms in my classroom again, because they were EXTREMELY inappropriate...and should they use them in college, they'll likely find themselves in front of a disciplinary board.
posted by m.c., at 9/25/2005 2:13 PM

Ah, my apologies. I note that you were accusing me of homophobia, and not racism. Oh, well. Since I'm a white Republican, I get so used to defending myself against both that sometimes I get them mixed up.
posted by m.c., at 9/25/2005 2:18 PM

MC, I think it is great that you reminded your students about their inappropriate comments. Great work. You will note from my earlier post that hostility towards the powerful christian right from our community is well earned. We have taken notice at their ever increasing attacks on our civil equality that has won the support of the US Federal Government. How would you react to this type of attack on your civil rights? Hopefully you never have to experience the type of humiliation that brings. Best of luck in your new school year. Tim W.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at 9/25/2005 3:09 PM

Tim,

I detected some hint of reproval in your post, amid the commentary about what a great thing it was that I told my students they were wrong for using those terms--a sort iof tone that says "You'll never have to go through this." So I felt that maybe I should clarify my own stance on homosexual relationships, just for the record.

I believe that homosexual unions being granted equal status is pretty much an inevitability, and don't have problems with civil unions or survivor benefits. The word "marriage" is shot through with religious connotations for me, and so I'm not sure I would ever support an extension of the word to gay couples...although I wouldn't mind an extension of the STATUS that the word carries with it.

(If this seems like an attempt to grant "marriage" without the use of the word...it is. But it's the most I can be comfortable with at the moment, so I hope no one here holds that against me.)

As far as homosexual relationships go, I remain a little uncomfortable with the idea. But then again, I live in America, so I don't have to be comfortable with the idea. I am a Republican, and I was raised in a conservative church, so I have many Christian ideals.

At the same time, I'm a social libertarian; as long as your having something doesn't HURT me, there shouldn't be a reason why you can't have it. There seem to be many people, on BOTH ends of the political spectrum, who remain uncomfortable with that idea. (I'm sure I was one of the few Republicans in Oklahoma, for example, to vote against the constitutional amendment passed there which forbade even civil unions. But given how heavily it passed, a majority of Democrats must have voted for it too.)

Oh, well, this is really neither here nor there. I was just amazed that someone actually responded to a post I thought would be long dead and buried.
posted by M.C., at 9/25/2005 3:31 PM

Actually MC, you can take what I said at face value, I do think it's great how you handled your class. What you said makes sense, nobody has to be comfortable with another person's life, but, should recognize that that person is who they are and well, that is just life. I can accept a christian being a christian and holding certain beliefs as long as they apply those beliefs to themselves as well and not pick and choose who are the "chosen ones". That is exactly what I see happening in the christian right movement: they have long identified gays and lesbians as their enemy, and have initiated unprovoked attacks against our community to the point of starting a national trend to change the constitution to ban us from enjoying the rights and freedoms of civil equality. I am sincere in saying this, that I do recognize and appreciate what you have said, and thank you for it, again, good luck with your career. Tim W.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at 9/25/2005 7:50 PM

The comments stated in this blog truly upsets me. I'm a christian who by the grace of God can now proudly profess to also be an ex-homosexual. The thing I read the most in majority of your comments was that you all seem to be unhappy with your lives and you don't know who gave you life and is in charge of it. The government is only chosing to address the equality thing of homesexuals and gay because of public pressure and satan. No other reason. If more people knew what they believed in and not what others tell them to believe in, the world wouldn't have as much trouble loving each other as we do. I love people regardless of their sexual preference but the sin of same sex partners can not be permitted or acceptable in God's eyes. The bible clearly states this, that homosexuality is an sin. The Lord changes by body and soul and all the ex-gays out there that say it was to hard to give up that lifestyle didn't trust God for deliverance. I believe Jesus died on the cross for all of us. Even the people trying to run this clinic. They may not have been following God will and they will answer for that but God should be the only one to judge them.
posted by kay, at 9/30/2005 12:25 AM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by kay, at 9/30/2005 12:25 AM

Thank you for your comments Kay, your post is truly fascinating.
So much so I could not resist responding to it.

You said "The thing I read most in the majority of your comments was that you all seem to be unhappy with your lives and you don't know who gave you live and who is in charge of it".

Well I can only speak for my self Kay, but some how I feel many others will side with me.

First of all, there is a certain portion of our lives that we are unhappy with, but that has nothing to do with being Gay.

Kay, I have been in a relationship for almost 14 years.
Before I settled down with just one person, I dated as a single man just like anyone else. You might say, until I found Mr WrightI was having a ton of fun with all the Mr. Wrongs.

Now, after 14 rears most of our friends are also gay folks that are in long term partnerships. I have to tell you the truth, I have never been happier in my life. To be loved, cared for and appreciated is not synonymous with only a male and female.

You no doubt sensed a undertone of anger and disgust in some of the post.
If you are truly a "reformed Gay" and are happy with your life God Bless You. I wish you all the luck in the world. I do not believe for a minute that you were totally Gay, but more on that later.

Back for a minute to the under tones of disgust. Kay I know tons and tons of Gay folks and 99% of our anger is not that we are Gay, it's that we are constantly under attack.

You must know this as an ex Gay. When we come into our own at a young tender age and discover who we are, we discover that some how we feel different about ourselves, no one else is like us. At least 25 years ago that is the way it was.

Finally we discover as time goes on that we truly not alone, and that there are many others out there just like us, and that we are not freaks.
As time goes on, we learn that we are as lovable as anyone else, and there is some one out there for us.
We may have to become estranged from family and friends to live our lives, but that is what we do to survive until we get to the age where have the confidence to tell others... here we are
we do the best we can to be the best person we can,...... but lurking on the side lines are well established religious groups who on the one hand claim that we are only one percent of the population, but on the other side spend hundreds of millions of dollars to go out of our way to make our lives miserable.

It's as if they are so bored with their own lives they have to constantly peer over the fence, to through fire bombs on us to entertain themselves.

The truth is every political or public group that sucks donations from the public has to have a juicy cause, or the money doesn't roll in. Money is their life's blood, and with out it they are as good as dead. We just happen to be an easy target.

In the 50's and 60's the religious groups had the "big red evil" that always played well, "Communism" "Dum-da-dum-dum" I remember that always being the big fish that threatened to corrupt our children through Commie teachers, or authors, or movie producers, or anybody they could hang the label on. The hateful Sen Joseph McCarthy paved the way on this one.

That was always a sure bet to solicit funds to keep going, it worked like magic.
But in the 70's the commies were going broke and the WALL was already on it's way down, it just had not fallen yet.

Ronald Reagan, the well seasoned politician, knew he had to come up with a new agenda and looked to a completely untapped source of votes. Here a man that had rarely ever attended a church got religion real fast (ya sure) and made Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson house hold names.
He appeared in the churches praying and giving sermons, promising them their agenda would get top shelf treatment if they convinced there members to vote for him. They bought it, sadly the American public bought it..and the rest is history.

Many other groups found there was an easy way to become national figures with out having to be elected to anything.
From that sprung the "hate Gay groups" like Focus on the Family, Concerned Mothers for America, Lou Sheldon's Traditional Family Values, notice all the buzz words, and 100 other groups that all have the one goal. Give Gay Americans all the trouble you can possibly muster. Why Gays? Why not. A Gay topic on TV will muster the highest ratings you can imagine, and the same goes with radio.

Think back, right after Reagan came into power AIDS sprang up, and that was tissue paper for the religious fire. Reagan would do nothing about it, never even mentioned the word, and let the religious right have that juicy slab of beacon. The other was abortion......hey there is another juicy one. I could go on and on about this but today these hate groups have had to get more and more hateful to keep their cause going. In the mean time people are getting killed, beaten robbed and pummeled, because of the hate and evil being spread to the members of so many churches. The dark ages here we come again.

They are also freaking out because every poll shows that young people ages 18 to 35 do not harbor the hate for Gay's they do, and soon they will be the next leaders of this country and surely a big chunk of the voters. This has them out on a spastic limb, and they are moving as fast as they can to stem the flow of rational thinking.

Gays don't hate God... they are his children too, and as science becomes more exacting on the topic of homosexuality, the public will understand that the very thing that makes a person Gay happens in the womb long before the person is born.
More and more evidence shows that every day. Maybe its evolution. Maybe it's natures way of saying hey give us a brake, that go forth and multiply thing has led to 6.5 billion people. The earth was never meant to hold that many without grave consequences.

Even religious groups know that now, but fight the government from every direction to stop any and all funding that seeks to find the truth on that topic. Why? when the truth finally comes out they have to find a new cause, and that wont be easy, or near as juicy.

Lets look at the 10 commandments, you know the thing they so dearly want plastered every where in your face. Nothing wrong with them...but the biggie in the big 10 is Thought Shall Not Commit Adult Adultery. just after Though shalt not kill, (hey Bush check it out) I don't see anything in the big 10 about being Gay, and I wonder how many people in those church pews, commit adultery on a regular basis.
However slamming that (adultery) doesn't bring in the big bucks and most likely would offend 60% of the members.

The point I have been trying to make is, the reason so many Gays are pissed off is that the religious right in the past 10 to 15 years have stooped to new lows and have now decided to adopt a tactic that worked so well for Hitler when he wanted to exterminate the Jews.

First he (Hitler) spread his hateful propaganda claiming they were much richer than the average German. He claimed they were better educated than the average person. He claimed they all lived lives of luxury, while there were so many poor Germans. He claimed they all held management positions or owned their own business. Never mentioning the miles of Jewish ghettos where the poor lived. He did everything he could to make the German population hate them to the point of destruction.
Today he same tactic is being used by the religious right to turn the populace into hate mongers against gays.

You think that is a bit strong do you? It's not it is the absolute truth. Here is just "one" example of what I am talking about.....believe me there are many more.
http://pageoneq.com/rssfeedstuff/index.php?id=2926

Do we hate our self? Do we hate our country?
Of course not.
The only ones we hate is the religious groups that target us for beatings, molestation, and death, and the right wingers that run this country who feel compelled to do their evil bidding, because they took their money when they were running for office.

This may educate you, there is plenty to read, but is just one reference to back my opinions.
You may not find it strange that every quote was authored by some kind of evil group professing to do Gods work. I'm not surprised at all..... If I'm not mistaken, the Bible says there is a special place in Hell for them. If so, I hope it's big enough to give them all front row seats.
posted by john62716, at 9/30/2005 1:39 PM

http://pageoneq.com/rssfeedstuff/index.php?id=2926

Here you go Kay
posted by john62716, at 9/30/2005 1:47 PM

http://pageoneq.com/rssfeedstuff
/index.php?id=2926

hope it printed this time
posted by john62716, at 9/30/2005 1:50 PM

Thank you for posting this! I was sent to this place by my parents and was thoroughly disgusted by the evasive questions they asked, as well as by the rediculous rules by which they expect you to follow while going through their 'treatment camp'.

They kept me in a back office for three hours as they sent in person after person to talk to me in attempts to get me to stay. (I, luckily, was over the age of 18, so they needed my consent in order to keep me there.) I was disgusted by the way they spoke to me. They accused me of struggling with homosexuality as if it were a sinful decision I was making on counts of revenge or rebellion against god and my family. They took all of my jewelry and my belt, my dog tags, my wallet, my phone- basically everything except the clothes I was wearing, and said they would return them once I had successfully completed their program. I was lucky enough to even get those back before I stormed out of that place.

One thing some people do not realize about this place, is that they provide couseling and support groups for the parents as well. Sadly, my parents go to these sessions and have been going for quite some time. They have been completely sucked into their ways of thinking and have been turned against me. I am not even allowed to stay in my own house over holidays if I bring home anyone of the same sex. Regardless if they are truely just friends or not. And that is despite the fact that I am currently serving my country and may possibly never make it home again.

If this place is shut down and recognized for mal-treatment practices, it may possibly show my parents that this place was wrong in their teachings.

Either way, I am glad this place is being shut down, and the word is getting out about them. Also wanted to thank you for posting this! This gives me so much encouragement and hope! It is things like this that give me a reason to fight and survive.

Thank you so much and keep up the good work! One day, I hope to join you when I am free again to express myself-
posted by Anonymous, at 9/30/2005 10:07 PM

My apologies for accidently posting my response a few times. I am new to this whole blog thing and did not notice that I submitted my post more than once.

Sorry for the inconvenience-
posted by Anonymous, at 9/30/2005 10:18 PM

John62716, dont give your self and your community so much credit. Groups like Focus on the Family and others were not born to punish gays. they are a natural outgrowth of the 60's and 70's counter culture revolution. Abortion, flag burning, non tradtional religions, rampant sexuality of all types, drug use and civic antipathy.

Those now identified as beign on the right saw their nation under attack. Can you honestly blame them when all of the various sub components of the era are taken together. So they banded together to fight back agaisnt this tide of percieved imoraility.

Into this atmopshere comes gay pride events. I am sorry but the worst way to win acceptance is to be in your face about anything. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Videos of hairy men in panties and tutu's marching down magor roads in magor cites was viewed by most Americans with shock and disgust.

The Aids, which has now been traced back into the 50's or ealrier arrive din force. Primiarily among gay men haivng unprotected sex with strangers in bathhouses. Now I wont call it divine retribution. but since we have known about STD's for hundreds of years and that warm polluted water is a ahving for micro-orgamisms sinc ethe invention of the microscope. I will call it the sexual equivaloent of playing chicken with a train. Death by misadventure, even if they didnt know about HIV, they knew unprotected sex with strangers in an area of the body with super absorbent and tear prone regiosn of the body was down right stupid.

When added to the previous list of sudden shockign changes AIDs sure seeme dlike America feelign God's wrath.

You do of course realise that America is a very tradtional country, we like our change slow and orderly. Call it civil war hangover. America was just finishing with the decadence of the 60's and the destructiono the old style family when Disco and gay pride hit. Being at the tail end of a long period of social upheaval many said enough is enough already. We dotn reember the first person to hit us, we remeber the man standign over us laughign when we are brusied. Gays became a visible symbol of all the socials ills of the time.

In times of strife and turmoil we fall back on the one and only thing that remains real to each and every one of us. Our indivual beleifs in a higher power. Be it Goverment, community, self, an ideal or God.

When a large group shares this ideal it is called a movement or a religion. it's adherants find accpetacne and community among like minded fellows. They also find validation. A Chrisitan is validated in his beleifs every sunday. You find validation for your s every time you have a gathering of like minded friends over to discuss the issues.

Now one religion (Christian) saw a host of evils assualting a nation it loved. Baby murder (abortion), fornication (sexual revolution), homosexuality (gay pride), divorce (vs committed marriages), laziness (welfare), Drugs (drunkeness), and rampant greed. They deicded to fight back agiasnt these thigns that they were taught are wrong and violate God's law as they understand it.

In most cases this was motivated by love, even if mis-directed by evil men for personal gain. How did these targeted groups re-act? With pure unbridled hatered towards a group rallying for the only way of life they had ever known.

In fact if the left ever wins I fear for freedom. Freedom of thought is the foundation of all other freedoms. And freedom of thought is hardly an idela to inspire the left. Instead we see the left trying to force politcally correc tthought by regulating wher epossible and villifying when not any speech they do not agree with.

We can only relate to what we have either been taught or experianced. Some examples. A Cop and a combat vet have similar epxeriances and can find common ground. A Cop and a felon on opposite sides of the issue cannot. The Cop sees himself as upholidng the values of society. The Crmminal sees the cop as an oppressor out to get him.

A similar gulf now divides the right and the left on so many issues. Instead of a Cop and vet, workign off shared experiances and values. We are usign the cop and robber model. Those few who try to build bridges will be attacked thats a fact of modern American politcal life.

Each side and that includes the very hate filled self rigtheous we are always the victim gay community lives on hate. But they call us this , or they do that, or we just wanna.... lets get real. Each side wants to force accpetacne of thier views on America instead of winning accpetance. And each plas the victim to justify the hate.

The problem is hate is hate is hate. There is no differance between the words breeder, faggot, or nigger. They are all labels used to strip some one of thier very humanity. There is never a justification to fight hate with hate.
posted by Jason, at 10/01/2005 1:35 AM

WHO SAID LIFE WAS FAIR?? STOP BITCHTING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/27/2006 2:31 AM

Religion is a failed experiment, 2000 years of war death and destruction.

Only when we deal with reality can we change the world for the better. Religion is a cop out, a blank out and denies reason and thinking. Knowledge is evil according to the bible. Believe as a dumb blind sheeple.

Choose rationality, choose individualism: the only thing that has made America great: Individual FREEDOM.

Jim
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