Friday, February 03, 2006
In September, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published cartoons
that depicted Mohammed as a terrorist. This all-too-predictably sent the always-angry Muslim world into a swivet. Other European newspapers also published the cartoons this week in solidarity with the Danish paper, which is under attack. To show my support for the Danish newspaper, I published one of the cartoons above.
Protests against European newspapers' publication of the cartoons gained momentum across the Islamic world as Pakistani schoolchildren burned French and Danish flags and Muslim presidents denounced the drawings. In another day of confrontation between the largely secular nations of Europe and the fundamentalist Muslim countries, Islamic activists threatened more widespread protests and boycotts of European businesses. In other words, the Muslims are bullying Europe into giving up free speech. Um, I don't think so.
I don't know about you, but I am so fed up with radical Islam and its extremism, violence and attacks on freedom. Every time something annoys them, they burn flags, scream and hold their breath until they get their way. Sorry, but in the West, we can print whatever the hell we want. This is why we are rich, successful and stable. In the West, we can disagree without blowing people up and throwing stones. In the West, we don't treat women like pets. In the West, we love and value our liberty (except George W. Bush).
The truth is, these Islamic temper tantrums only occur because we allow them to. They can threaten us and whine and carry-on ONLY because of our free speech laws. With out these laws, the Muslim rioters in France, for instance, simply would have been shot. After all, that is how they handle dissent in Iran, Egypt and Syria.
The radical Islamists are like the 90-pound weakling at the gym, flexing his muscles and threatening the steroidal body builders. At some point, the weakling is going to go to far, and get a weight dropped on his head. The newspapers in Europe should tell the Islamists to shove it. Newspapers in the United States should also publish these cartoons. The biggest mistake we can make is to be intimidated by these bullies. Countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia might be able to suppress their own citizens - but those of us in the West are not subject to their barbaric laws.
I disagree Wayne. The cartoon was in poor taste. It's an attack to their Faith, and that is unacceptable. The radicals in Islam are are few and do not represent the majority of the religion, just as the radical fundamentalists here.
The cartoons are offensive and bigoted. They suggest that Muhammad supported or encouraged terrorism, which is NOT true.
I'm all about freedom of expression, but with that freedom comes responsibility. And they are feeling the sting of that now as they hide their racism behind the veil of freedom of speech. And try to characterize this as a bold move against terrorism.
I doubt a cartoon like that would be printed in Israel. It's inflammatory.
posted by Rob7534, at
2/03/2006 2:10 AM
Whether its in bad taste or not the fact of the matter is, Islam outrightly condemns homosexuality and in some Islamic states it is punishable by torture and/or death. I don't see the majority of their non-radical citizens protesting their respective barbaric customs either. To hear western political leaders extol Islam as a great religion of peace is offensive in light of recent executions in Iran. It doesn't hold water in my opinion when it systematically inflicts cruel and unusual punishment on its gay citizens just for being different and the manner in which it subjugates women is a whole other issue based on their religious beliefs and supposed interpretation of the Quran.
posted by , at
2/03/2006 9:19 AM
All right, gentlemen, it's time to be completely honest here.
As Mr. Besen said yesterday, we're staring at a possibly nuclear-armed Iran in either the near or not-too-distant future. That country's significantly bigger than either Iraq or Afghanistan.
And again, (recalling events from the Jimmy Carter presidency) Iran alone has hated us well before GWB got into politics. Let's not get into the other muslim nations stretching from Morocco to Indonesia.
How, as president, would you go about standing up to these guys differently than our supposedly freedom-hating president GWB?
posted by , at
2/03/2006 10:33 AM
Interesting, Paul in Houston posted this earlier:
To answer your question ... what would I do differently than HRH King George?
Well, for starters I would align our NATO allies and get broad worldwide support and assistance in any war and policing effort to curtail Iran's nuclear capabilities ... and not expect American's to be the only real force put in harms way *or* to foot the bills.
I would also seek to exhaust *all* efforts at diplomacy before engaging in bloodshed and most importantly I would seek to get as much on the ground intel - *based in reality* as possible before making any rash decisions.
... but thats just me.
A couple of questions:
1. Did Israel have "broad support" in the world when it put Saddam's nuclear reactors out of commission back around 1981? (Thank God it did.)
2. Let's say the war in Iraq had never happened, but events in Iran are exactly the same. What make you think we'd get any more support from our world allies for taking our Iran's weapons "programme" than we have for Iraq. (Remember, Bill Clinton, the U. N.'s Hans Blix and many others said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and had to be stopped.)
3. If said "allies" wouldn't help, what do we then do? Nothing?
4. As for "diplomacy", how do we know that we've not talked and talked and talked with radical Islamists already (and that we're not STILL talking to them)?
When comes the point of not talking any longer and taking action? And if you have that point, can you give us a comparison of how we dealt with Al Qaida (words vs. action) not just during GWB's administration but previous ones as well?
posted by , at
2/03/2006 10:44 AM
First: The U.S. must launch massive surgical strikes against nuclear reactors and research facilities.
Second: The U.S. must also launch massive cruise missle and smart bomb attacks to cripple Iran's Air Force
Third: Destory the country's Navy.
These three steps would end the "nuclear problem" and set Iran back into the military Stone Age.
The key is to avoid ground troops. Our goal is to eliminate the threat, not occupy the nation.
Is this a desirable scenario? No. But it beats having to face that crazy country armed with nuclear weapons.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
2/03/2006 10:47 AM
You know what? I've about had it with them Ayerabs. We need to get a big weapon and send these people back to the sand!
Plus, the don't wear deoderant and drive camels. Nuff said...
Duke from South Carolina
posted by , at
2/04/2006 1:13 PM
These aren't Arabs in Iran, they're Persians.
Hope cruise missiles and "destroying the navy" would do it...this country borders Afghanistan (as well as parts of the old Soviet Union)...there may be a lot more places to hide things there...
posted by , at
2/04/2006 4:11 PM
From CNN.com Muslim Protestors Targe t Embassy's
In a strongly worded statement, a U.S. State Department spokesman said Friday that, despite respect for the freedom of expression, the publication of cartoons that incite religious or ethnic hatreds is unacceptable.
The Vatican also weighed in Saturday, saying freedom "cannot imply the right to offend" religious faiths, but emphasized "violent actions of protest are deplorable."
The Vatican said a government should not be held responsible for actions of a newspaper. However, authorities "could and must, eventually, intervene according to the principals of the national legislation," the Vatican added.
This thing has gotten way out of hand. I posted my thoughts about it yesterday within the (WANTED: GAY BASHING HATCHET WIELDING FIEND) article -- because this single article on Wayne's blog was crippled.
Today I read that CNN and most every other US News agency is to *afraid* to exercise their *Free Speech* and exercise the power of the press to post the pictures causing the controversy. To make matters even more appalling the US Government has come out with the above statement indicating that *freedom of expression* - when dealing with religion is *unacceptable*?
The article goes on to quote the pope -- but it is little surprise to me that the Nazi Pope would demand that speech criticizing religion be banned -- BUT THE US GOVERNMENT?
I do not care how many buildings the ignorant hordes burn to the ground. Someone, anyone making a statement about religion ... yes even if it is inflammatory and offensive ... does not justify such behavior.
The middle east is obviously not ready to join the civilized world in the 21st Century - and it is wrong to expect the civilized world to revert back thousands of years to meet this group at their level.
I am shocked and digusted by the lack of courage for *freedom* that America and American's are showing during this crisis. America should be standing up and defending the right to free exchange of ideas -- yes even when offensive. But of course it won't be to long in our country before we'll be locking up those that have the audacity to criticize religion - Aye?
Paul in HOuston
posted by , at
2/04/2006 5:59 PM
Anon: You posted my response and then stated:
"Let's say the war in Iraq had never happened, but events in Iran are exactly the same. What make you think we'd get any more support from our world allies for taking our Iran's weapons "programme" than we have for Iraq."
Unfortunately that ship has sailed - we cannot undo Iraq and the fact that it is now broadly accepted that Bush and his cohorts lied and manipulated the evidence that *was put forth* ... we can expect this to come back to haunt us time and time again when *real* threats must be dealt with.
On a side note: I did support the Gulf War and believed it was executed in the proper fashion with broad support. I felt at the time that we should've *completed* the mission and taken that opportunity to perform a regime change in Iraq.
I believe that many European nations are already on record in the case of Iran - there appears to be a broad concensus that Iran must never be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. A sense of urgency not present with the Iraq situation. I believe it would be important to play upon this and insist that all efforts were made to contain Iran -- but if it came down to it -- we could strategically destroy their capabilities without *boots on the ground* ... much in the same way Clinton directed our military in Kosovo and Israel's strikes against Iraq. Yes I would be hawkish about destroying any attempts or hopes of Iran achieving membership to the nuclear clubhouse.
... My Final thought on this: in light of the events of the past several days (Cartoon Craziness) I am now more than ever willing to do whatever it takes to keep nuclear technology out of the hands of muslim countries like Iran. To use a Sci-Fi reference this reminds me of the concept of *Star Trek's Prime Directive* -- these people are obviously not ready for big-boy toys like nuclear capability and it would be a big mistake to allow them access to advanced nuclear technology. Heck - there are times that I don't believe even *we* are advanced enough to have possession of it -- but we did of course manage to navigate through the Cold War without destroying the planet.
Paul in Houston
posted by , at
2/04/2006 6:58 PM
Libertarian Neal Boortz sees it this way:
From Neal Boortz:
Muslim outrage huh. OK … let’s do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:
* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
* A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
* Let’s go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
* Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
* Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
* Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
posted by , at
2/04/2006 7:32 PM
When the Islamic public is loudly and clearly outraged of the murderous and animalistic (yes, it is animalistic to murder in this way) activities of their own, they can be taken more seriously. When they understand that freedom of speech does not give the right to murder, they can be taken more seriously. I know many wonderful Muslims. Many. However the silence of the majority of the Muslim community supports the radicals in their behavior. It pretty much says that many of the quiet ones are living vicariously while pretending to be peace-loving. When they have Imams who preach murder, there is nothing sacred or spiritual about those Imams and little if anything spiritual about those who listen.
What's a real shame is that the US had to wait until the Towers were hit to start to gain some consciousness and Europe has to wait for something like this cartoon incident. You'd think the world would have joined in at a higher level to speak out against the cowardice barbarism of the Islamic Arabs when it was more confined to what the Palestinians were doing to the Jews. No one but the Jews really spoke out when the Christian Arabs were being mass murdered by the Muslim Arabs in Lebanon. Where were the voices. Thank goodness for something now, be it very, very late and rather costly.
I'm sure that many Arabs may miss the beauty in the following, though only if they choose to keep their eyes, ears and minds closed, and focus on punishing people for cartoons they may not like while ignoring the horrible cartooning that's accepted on somewhat daily basis in the Arab press against the Jews. The rest of you will discover or rediscover the beauty in these quotes by Golda Meir. They are so very, very true and so many more in the world are now allowing themselves to recognize it, helped unintentionally of course by Islamic extremists as well as by the silent Muslim world in the face of the extremism, for until the political leaders and the religious leaders in a predominantly Muslim country can rise to a level of consciousness and responsibility to actually tell their people to stop murdering others, and until parents there start to behave as parents and tell their children to stay home and start to instill some real values in them, this will continue. Please enjoy and pass along the following:
"I have given instructions that I be informed every time one of our soldiers is killed, even if it is in the middle of the night. When President Nasser leaves instructions that he is to be awakened in the middle of the night if an Egyptian soldier is killed, there will be peace." -Golda Meir
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." -Golda Meir
"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons." -Golda Meir
And so I ask, when will they (yes, I used the "they" word) learn to love their children more than they enjoy living in hatred of others? And will we ever be able to forgive them for what they're forcing us to become if we want to remain alive and protect our families?
posted by , at
2/07/2006 11:15 PM
This is from another column yet still pertains.
Having read through some of these comments, there's some really interesting thinking here along with some fascinating convolution leading to, of course, misconclusions, should such a word exist. And should it not, it fits here anyway.
My first piece of amusement came up when reading the person who said "I would prefer you use "religious outrage" etc, and go on to specify the details, rather than refer to "Muslims" or "Islamic"."
This IS about Islamic fundamentalism. It simply IS. Now if you'd like to comment on fundamentalism in general, feel free, but please don't smokescreen. And in case you're still confused, refer to the title at the top of the page. I'm sure you might be able to find some people discussing fundamentalism in general and try that approach with them. Fortunately someone else noted that "It is not Jews, Christians or any other group causing such world turmoil. It is Muslims who belong to specific violent sects. These are the hard facts. Political correctness does not change this reality." To this I will add that any time you put a modifier in front of the word correct, you've MODIFIED correct. It's either corrrect or it isn't.
Now here's a good one: "On the other hand many Muslims have organized and come out against terrorism, Clerics have come out against it, and American Muslim groups have also made their voice known on the issue." The author of this statement goes on to say "I love you Wayne, but I totally disagree with you on this one. Freedom of speech is a basic American right and protected by our Bill of Rights, but you cannot yell FIRE in a crowded theatre. Some of the Cartoons were funny, others were lame, and some where just stupid, and a few were downright offensive." This one's easy to take apart. First of all, it's nice that you love Wayne, but let's not feel that saying so - and in such a condescending way, I might add - makes your viewpoint any more or less legitimate. In this case, you're off. "Many" Muslim groups and clerics (Imams) have NOT organized or come out against terrorism. As a matter of indisputable fact, the huge MAJORITY of them have not, and those that have are whispering. Now let me infuse this with some facts that many people don't realize. When feeling enough pressure for many of them to finally make a statement against "terrorism," very few journalists pushed them to define terrorism or to state specifically that the attack on the Towers was terrorism. Let me now explain WHY. Because they don't consider that to be terrorism! There is a long explanation I could give you for this but right now suffice it to say that they do not consider non-Muslim victims of indiscrimate attacks such as what they did when attacking the Towers as innocent. Can you believe that? You probably can't. That, of course, doesn't change it from being the truth. If you want to find out for certain, ask some of them. Backed into a corner conversationally, most will admit it. And, you will then find out that they did not consider that terrorism. Yes, many will come out and say that they're against terrorism, however they know that you don't know what they consider terrorism to be. This is how they rationalize telling a lie (because they know what we are thinking when they use the word "terrorism") and telling themselves that they aren't lie. And they like it that way. This will anger some people. Some because they just found out. Others because they don't want to believe it. If you're in the second group, don't waste your time arguing with me. If your concern is truly being knowledgeable on this issue, ask some Muslims whom you trust to tell you the truth. And make sure you get a clear, accurate "yes" or "no" answer from them, not a vague evasion or non-response. Then you can talk to me if you want.
No one yelled "fire" in a "crowded theatre." The author of the comic simply took the same, although more restrained, approach that these very same people who are claiming outrage accept in their own publications. The preponderance of evidence is incontrovertible and, by the way, currently all over the internet. Thank goodness the rest of the world is finally glimpsing what the Arabs have kept to themselves about their inflammatory lies they tell in their press. Next, "funny...lame...stupid...downright offensive?" And your point? It's political satire. Give me a break. If you're going to write to make a point, it's best if you actually have one.
Moving further through these emails, the next statement that caught my eye was "While I share the outrage at these acts of violence, I don't believe that "force may be the only way to resolve the conflict", as this column suggests. Hasn't our use of military force in Iraq to "resolve conflicts" only resulted in greater violence and more terrorist "insurgents..."?
I agree. Force may not be the only way to resolve the conflict. But don't confuse "force" with "intelligent force." Intelligent force would probably have done a far superior job.
And then there's the person who said "The Danish paper threw a Molotov cocktail at Muslims. What else could you expect?" Again, it was no more - and far less - of a Molotov cocktail than what is accepted in the Arab/Muslim/Islamic publications. That's why they have no right to be indignant. And as far as your asking "what else can you expect?" Civilized decorum for one. Intelligent conversational exchange for two. I'll leave it to you to appropriately add to the list.
In completing my discourse of clarity in this picture, I'd like to respond to the person who finished by saying "In closing, I would not normally post anonymously -- to anything. I have said much more inflammatory things that these with my name and city at the bottom -- however, not when it involves friends who might, even though I did not name them, be somehow identified and made vulnerable -- particularly those that are still in places like Karachi, and therefore might end up hurt -- or dead." Well, I'm also posting anonymously. You may have said "much more inflammatory things" with your name and city, but Darlin', you probably said them to people who have a least a semblance of restraint and don't believe that if they kill you they'll be given 72 virgins, especially now that we've found out that they ran out up there is Islamic fundamentalist heaven. In other words, you didn't make your "much more inflammatory" statements in print with your name and address to Islamic extremists. You probably don't want to have to live like Salman Rushdie. (Google him up if you don't know what I mean. It's a real eye-opener.) More than that, you probably simply didn't want to be murdered. And if you were to ask your potential murderer and their friends and probably their family, too, believe it or not, it wouldn't have been murder. And it wouldn't have been terrorism. And they wouldn't have lost out on any more virgins.
Anonymous? You bet.
posted by , at
2/08/2006 1:14 AM
I totaly disagree the caroon was very very offensive and all the protest are justified eventhough some believe it was exaggerated.
everyone has to be objective in dealing with such issues and it will better not using such issues to gain fame or to have alittle support from someone.if u want to judge something dont u ever take sides. prophets are not ordinary people especially in islam and there are a lot of limits that should be respected and what the poor danish have done cant be taken as a part of the freedom of speech.u r taking this conterversy cartoon as outlet for what u feel about islam otherwise u didnt use all these silly notes about the muslims .by the way im muslim woman and from saudia arabia too thank u very much for showing me the haterd that all the American have against us as muslims and i hope u will live in similar situation surronded by wars supported frome the country of democracy which interfer in everything forcing its system it is only then u will know why all the muslims around the world hate america.do u know something i used to put on a t-shirt which has the american flag me and other friends and we all wished to see AMERICa but after the war against iraq and afganstan and the discrimination of the quran in gontanamo and all these pictures of ur dimocratic soldires i put the shirt as feet mat and the wish to see america turned to another beautiful purpose
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