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Wayne Besen
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If you read one article this week, make it the chilling New York Times Magazine's feature on Liberty University's debate team. For those who don't know, this is Rev. Jerry Falwell's university. The article teaches us that Falwell's father was a rum-running criminal and his son is even more conservative than he is. Sounds like a lovely family.
Most important, it shows us how we have our work cut out for us. Liberty is one of the top debating schools in the nation. On campus, they teach their doe-eyed students the art of obfuscating and dissembling for Christ.
Unfortunately, these are the same young zealous fools who would have blindly defended Falwell in court in the 1950's when he was a huge proponent of segregation. Morally cocksure and pious, these fast-talking students would have blissfully argued that racist bigotry is a Biblical mandate.
Falwell had to give up racism when it became too unpopular. But, homophobia - at least in Lynchburg - is still in vogue. So, he is training these debaters to lie for the Lord and misrepresent gay life. It is quite sad that these talented young students are wasting their skills and promise on such a spiteful and mean-spirited crusade that will lead to ultimate defeat.
27 Comments:
Well since it seems that you have taken your entire post to rant on the debators in the misguided assumption that we are all "mini-Falwells" forgive me if I am not as respectfull as I normally would be.
I was on the Liberty Debate team through last semester and although your understanding of Liberty debate is understandable (given your limited exposure to the team) you couldn't be more wrong. A majority of the members of the debate team do not subscribe to the views of Jerry Falwell and most of us are quite moderate if not Liberal on a majority of issues. There are many times when we critique Jerry just as any rational person would. I can't and don't defend anything that Jerry says or does because I believe his views do not and should not represent me, my fellow classmates, Christians, or my fellow Americans.
Personally I am not satisfied with my education at Liberty and am transfering at the end of the semester.
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 3:30 AM
Anonymous, great to hear you are transfering away from anything to do with that pathetic, self-righteous, buffoon Falwell. Best of luck in finding an institution dedicated to quality education instead of demonizing and humiliating people the way that Falwell has done his entire life. Good on you.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at
3/24/2006 9:11 AM
As I understand it, part of what makes a good debater is the tremendous amount of research that goes into the other guy's position. If so, the best debaters would be those who can see the other side from the other side's perspective.
So in the end, it all comes down to character:
-- If you have studied the other side thoroughly as well as your own, and you find your own side's arguments too often supported by lies, wouldn't that shape your opinions IF you had the integrity to follow the truth?
-- If you understood the difference between lies and the truth, wouldn't you hold out for truth IF you were commited to being a True Witness rather than a False Witness?
It seems to me that yes, our work is cut out for us. I don't see many people (present company excepted :-) ) working to understand our anti-gay opponents from the inside perspective, which all too often makes our work appear very sloppy. We miss the mark in the media messages all too often. Our East-coast and West-coast activists are shockingly tone-deaf when they say some of the things they say. When it comes to messages, Fundies are running circles around us in the square states.
But I think Anonymous #1 illustrates our best advantage: the truth is on our side.
posted by Jim Burroway, at
3/24/2006 9:32 AM
Have you ever heard what Dr. Falwell said when asked what he would do if he learned that one of his sons was gay?
He said words to the effect of: "I'd tell him that I think it's a sin. But I'd tell him that I love him, and that his room at my house will always be his room, and that my house will always be a place he can call 'home'."
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 10:16 AM
It's easy for Fatty Falwell to say what his reaction to having a gay son would be. But he doesn't have a gay son, does he?
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 10:35 AM
Anonymous, but what if by hearing his words, people realized they should treat their gay kids with love instead of hate?
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 10:55 AM
Saying it is a "sin" IS hate. It means that the Lord finds displeasure with the only way a person can express genuine love.
The attempt to separate a person from his or her sexuality is revolting and disgusting. It is unworthy of discussion among educated, modern people.
So, Beth, you think we should just abandon religion altogether?
What moral code do we use, then, our own judgment?
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 11:18 AM
Let me begin by stating that I in no way endorse or agree with everything Falwell says, and in fact think the opposite on many of today's current issues.
I find it rather humerous that members of the left like to sit back and point fingers at people like Falwell for being a "conservative nut" all the while pretending that there aren't similar people in their own camp. The fact of that matter is that there are worse people on both sides than Falwell. At least he has the decency to practice what he preaches, which is more than what can be said for most people. Sure he may have some crazy ideas, but that's what America is all about: the ability to stand up for what you believe. Thankfully the Founders created a government that used this to its advantage: all the crazy people try to pull the government to the far left and right, and we end up somewhere in the middle where we belong.
My main concern with many of these posts, however, is the general disrespect of Falwell as a person. You criticize his views, and then reduce your arguments to name calling. Well I say that makes you no better than he is. It makes you a hypocrite. If you truly believe that we should all live together and accept EVERYONE for who they are and what they believe, that includes Falwell.
I would encourage you if you disagree with him on any particular issue to contact him, he may turn out to be smarter than you anticipated.
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 11:26 AM
Jerry Falwell used to go on television and say, "Even animals don't do that," referring to gay people. Only about a decade ago did he stop referring to us as "the homosexuals". He has repeatedly called us child molesters and said that we shouldn't be allowed in the Boy Scouts because "no one knows what would happen when the lights go down". That was a mere five years ago. He has publicly stated that he doesn't want America to become another "Sodom". He even blamed gays for the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
As for him saying he would "love" his gay son, I must say, love is not just a feeling. Love involves ACTION. How about helping gay people get equality under the law? How about helping us get marriage rights so that we can have stronger families? How about speaking out against homophobia in the church? How about not using the Bible to condemn us to hell? How about not expelling gay students from Liberty, which goes on to this very day?
And what about something that happened just LAST WEEK: he forbade the Equality Riders from even stepping foot on his campus! He had gay people of faith arrested. That isn't LOVE, friend, no matter how much lipservice Falwell pays to it. And you say that WE are the ones who need to "stop pointing fingers"?! Wake up and smell the coffee. Jerry Falwell deserves the contempt we have for him. He should hang his head in shame.
posted by Chris L., at
3/24/2006 12:22 PM
"So, Beth, you think we should just abandon religion altogether?
What moral code do we use, then, our own judgment?"
Fundamentalists use their own bad judgement every day by the way they interpret the Bible. There are hundreds of religions and versions of Christianity. They have sadly elceted to latch onto the worst part of it. And this is a result of thier own immoral judgement. Not God's.
Further, fundamentalist Christians are the worst moral relativists. Whatever feels good, they do it - all they do to justify their often despicable behavior is claim the Lord told them to do it. Sort of like Bush invading Iraq.
I am not religious whatsoever, and the moral code I use is this: "Do nothing that hurts others or yourself". Fundamentalists are laughable in their claim to morality. Was it the Bible that caused the Southern Bapsists to support slavery in the 1800s? Oh, right, actually it was!
As shocking as it may seem, YES, some human beings actually DO rely upon their own judgement in this world! We don't see our fellow human beings as depraved, unworthy and pitiful, as fundamentalists tragically do. But when you are taught that the world started in paradise but was ruined by the woman listening to a snake, I guess such misanthropic thought is to be expected.
posted by Chris L., at
3/24/2006 1:23 PM
Chris,
At the time Falwell said his "gay son" comments, they were reported by a gay man (the son of a minister) who said Falwell's words would save lives if they were widely broadcast.
He said this would be so because he'd met far too many GLBT kids who'd been thrown out of their homes by parents who claimed to be Christian.
He said parents like these would LISTEN to Falwell when the latter said to love their children and let them stay at home.
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 1:54 PM
What's most pathetic of all is the fact that ANY parent should have to be told, by a minister or anyone, not to throw a gay child onto the street in the first place. It staggers the mind. Fundamentalists are morally bankrupt individuals.
posted by Chris L., at
3/24/2006 2:09 PM
Chris, I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your intelligent, insightful posts. I'm glad your on our side. I'm sure the Liberty (what a joke) Debating Team would have a tough time against you (and Wayne). Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 2:24 PM
I meant you're, not your. G NJ
posted by Anonymous, at
3/24/2006 2:25 PM
Gary that is SO so sweet. Thanks! :) I am glad we are all in this together, because if I had to go it alone without the support of this community, I don't think I would make it.
posted by Chris L., at
3/24/2006 2:29 PM
Good point Chris, I think we often lose sight of the fact that we are all in this together. Jim Says: Our East-coast and West-coast activists are shockingly tone-deaf when they say some of the things they say. When it comes to messages, Fundies are running circles around us in the square states.
I agree with your statement Jim, far too much of what is said (and believed to be true) about gays goes unchallenged and that in part is due to media bias and lack of awareness. I have always said that in any of these debates, we are far too often faceless and nameless. It is easy for a bigot to spout hateful garbage when they are not face to face with the people they are spouting about. Tully Satre recently was a shining example when he showed up to a town meeting with Senator Allen in Virg. and handed his ass to him on a plate. Tully is a 16 year old kid and did this alone. This is the kind of thing the rest of us need to do. Get and stay informed about what the other side is saying and not let them away with arrogant lies and stigmatization.
He said words to the effect of: "I'd tell him that I think it's a sin. But I'd tell him that I love him, and that his room at my house will always be his room, and that my house will always be a place he can call 'home'."
One word comes to mind, hum, Bullshit.
The fact of that matter is that there are worse people on both sides than Falwell.
Pretty far reaching statement given the fact that Falwell has done nothing to earn respect from gay and lesbian citizens. He is a self-righteous pig and I have no shame in saying that.
posted by BC WaterBoy, at
3/24/2006 8:16 PM
Falstaffian Falwell is the reincarnation of henry viii only instead of beheading his wives its open season on gay people.
posted by Anonymous, at
3/25/2006 10:04 AM
hey guys falwell is living on borrowed time at the most he has 9 years left to live before the valves they replaced in his heart fail, and I highly doubt he will go into surgery 1 every 10 years for the rest of his life.
posted by Adam Kautz, at
3/25/2006 4:29 PM
