You can purchase an autographed copy of Anything But Straight by sending a $35 check or money order to:
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Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
Today, Alan Chambers from Exodus International rightfully distanced his organization from DL Foster, who portrayed me as Hitler. I thank Mr. Chambers for this clarification and for taking DL to task. I appreciate this gesture and I am glad we both agree that some behavior is beyond the pale:
Wayne,
I just emailed DL and asked him to retract his statement and to apologize. There is plenty we can disagree on without attacking one another.
I pray that DL will take my advice and make amends.
This is for Mr. Chambers, I'm always concerned about anyone demanding that a group deny their identity or activity that's a part of that identity.
Our nation is very schizophrenic and unrealistic when it comes to dealing with the realities of sexuality, and sex education. I think Mr. Chambers, that our society is extremely ignorant of gay people and their needs. And that you help validate that ignorance and fear that keeps gay people and non gay people at a distance from each other and unable to reconcile reality and expectations.
Especially expectations. This is unfair to gay youngsters who are continually trying to assert their identity and speak for themselves and have to fight people like you who refuse to give them the opportunity without their straight peers, family or social network expecting them to change. The implication being, you can change, so if you don't want to suffer, get on with changing. I've never, EVER gotten an answer on this. There is never anything gentle in fomenting a society that pressures gay people to change. And you know that pressure helps your plans. It's not funny when the only options are to be celibate or marry as a non gay person. With such pressures, fear, ignorance and little respect for all other things of merit gay people do, what YOU do is frankly VERY sinister in nature because it relies on all of those things to accomplish what you say you do.
I want gay people to have the opportunity to really say and be who they are without fear of reprisal for it, and you should too. You should be at the forefront of gay equality in all quarters to make your claims true.
As long as you support any social standards of restriction, I can't believe you're being fair, right or truthful in helping gay people overcome anything. It's hard to overcome the heterosexual standards of sexuality that dictate that gay people must live up to standards NEVER set for straight people. Heterosexuality isn't a virtue, Mr. Chambers.
I AM heterosexual, and always have been. We're not that great or wonderful because of our sexuality, and we're not told to walk with Jesus no matter what we do in the law. Our merits or potential is never questioned, nor are all heteros indicted for the bad things a few do. We are always redeemable, accepted and forgiven no matter how badly we act on our sexuality. A gay person doesn't have to be anything but gay for their entire lives to be judged as worthless to anything or anyone.
This is interchangable with so many other groups judged harshly not by what they do, but what they ARE. You're too late with Foster. You've got thousands more just like him who took your words and those of everyone else with the same expectations to heart and the damage is done.
To Alan Chambers: I and many other's commend you for this absolutely Christian gesture. I hope DL makes a public and personal apology to Mr. Besen...his actions were uncalled for and clearly in poor taste. Not the example a "Christian" leader should be setting. So thank you Alan and I hope more people will realize that we all have a right to our owns beliefs.Lets try to take this at face value for what it was... a sincere gesture and an apology that he did not have to make....the fact that he did...speaks volumes. Maybe now we can begin a HEALTHY dialogue, Dare to dream! Let's all try to behave like decent human beings and get along....it's OK to agree to disagree! Let try something NEW. PEACE.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 2:42 PM
I would no more "dialogue" with chambers and the "ex-gays" than i would with a holocaust revisionist or someone who thinks exorcism can replace psychiatry. "Dialoging" is presumptive that their position has some merit--it does not! Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 3:05 PM
gosh gary. you have just given people like dobson and falwell all the amunition they need to prove that gays are disordered. i understand - but how do you expect to have respect if you don't give any when it is offered???
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 3:44 PM
We stopped expecting respect a long, long time ago.
posted by Chris L., at
6/13/2006 3:46 PM
i know. but today it here - as little as it is. it is here.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 4:19 PM
Anon., not wanting to 'dialogue' with someone hardly makes me/us disordered. "Ex-gays" and their "therapies" are a-priori nonsense; overwhelmingly disproven by the Facts. I have no desire to exchange respect with people who would gladly see us wiped off the face of the earth, whose unabating rhetoric has inflamed hate crimes and driven countless glbt youth to self-destructive behavior, including suicide. Respect must be earned and that lot is light-years from getting any from me. Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 4:31 PM
i do agree with you. and we have gained a lot over the years. we have to keep trying. i am sorry that your only interaction is with horrible christians. there are some who even though we disagree about homosexuality, they are warm welcoming kind and generous people.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 5:08 PM
Don't be fooled. While Chambers' distancing himself from DL is welcomed, he isn't doing it because he's a good Christian. He's doing it for political reasons. Comparing someone to Hitler because they disagree with you is juvenille speech and hurts his cause because it makes his people seem like extremists, which is true death to any movement. If DL've was a wise move, he wouldn't be asking DL for to apologize.
posted by Chris L., at
6/13/2006 5:12 PM
i don't know about alan. but i ahve some friends who truly are kind.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/13/2006 5:16 PM
Actually, Chris, I am doing it because despite our absolute disagreements on most all things political and concerning homosexuality, my wife and I have always genuinely liked Wayne. Wayne would have done the same for me. Tomorrow will no doubt be back to our repsective agendas, but today was about being human.
posted by Alan Chambers, at
6/13/2006 8:57 PM
Every day is supposed to be about being "human" - and frankly, I'm weary of this idea that I'm supposed to respect someone else's right to engage in discourse about MY life. Perhaps if the discussion was a more even playing field - in which case, we would be discussing the right wing ministry claim to christianity, armed with all of the vicious vitriol we can muster while demanding constitutional amendment limiting their citizenship rights, everyone could come to the table on an equal footing.
However, that isn't the way those who persecute in the name of religion play the game. They don't want us having pride celebrations; they don't want us to have equal employment rights. They don't want hate crimes to be recognized. And they sure don't want our families or our right to self-determination recognized.
Their only claim to be persecuted is the whining of how intolerant others are of their right to persecute - all based on their chosen religious belief. I don't believe I owe anyone respect for that.
posted by Kevin, at
6/13/2006 10:32 PM
Alan, Looking at your track record, being human is not something you always respect. You refuse to acknowledge the thousands of gays and lesbians in happy, committed relationships. You have said horrid things about gays and lesbians you should have apologized for in the past. Perhaps this will prompt you to go back in time per say and apologize to the GLBT community about some of the aweful and hurtful things you have said.
I have been in a longtime committed and happy relationship for years.....you know those people you say don't exist or have something wrong with us? If you expect others to apologize for their misgivings, then perhaps you should as well. Live by example not by words.
I'm glad Alan had the integrity to stand up against exaggerated hate language of this DL person. He and Fred Phelps should just go ahead and hold hands and fall in love.
I just posted a blog about another Christian church here in Hollywood that is the polar opposite of those who denigrate and hate us. If only all Christian groups had this kind of love inside. Here: "It's enough to say thank you."
posted by SteveSchalchlin, at
6/14/2006 12:29 AM
Mr Chambers, it should be noted that we ought to be human everyday. Too bad the evangelical christian movement and the pathetic scam ex-gay movement are not capable of doing that. Actions speak louder than words. Please take your own advice. You do not have the right to prance around degrading gay people and their relationships on a regular basis in the guise of false christianity. You do not. I actually have pity for you for in falling for this utter crap and allowing these bigots (Dobson, Falwell etal) to degrade you and drive you into a closet of shame. I do not believe for one minute that if you were actually gay, that you are now hetero, please. If you want to claim that you are "cured" of something that doesn't require curing, that is your business, but I ask that you stop insisting that all gays must go back into the closet and live a sham hetero existance. Stop your political pandering and spreading lies about gays. So you, yourself had bad experiences, many of us did not and are quite happy the way we are meant to be. Your apologies mean nothing to me, sorry sir.
posted by Tim, at
6/14/2006 8:33 AM
Thanks anon, I think we all need to support Wayne's efforts in calling out the bullshit that is the ex-gay movement. I'm sick and tired of born-again liars framing rights and equality issues for gays and lesbians. I'm sick of their "not an immutable trait" bullshit they use in their attempts to deny equality to millions of good, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens. They need to be not only countered, but shut down and charged with fraud.
posted by Tim, at
6/14/2006 9:41 AM
Mr. Chambers willingness to apologize for one of his followers misdeeds is commendable, and does not require any further comment. It should be remembered however, that to pretend as though gays do not exist and that "anyone can change" is still as grossly offensive as any unfair personal attack, or the view that black people are really whites afflicted with 'congenital leprosy', but who can revert to their 'natural whiteness' with time and treatment. (These views were actually held by the 18th century physician Dr. Benjamin Rush, a friend of Benjamin Franklin honored as the "founder of American psychiatry".)
Also, a Christian ministry aimed at badgering Jews to convert to Chritianity would go over about as well as a cow chip in the punch bowl with most. Even if Christians claim that religion is not an immutable characteristic (undoubtedly true), and that they mean well (possibly true, but irrelevant), most Jews would see this kind of thing as hostile to their very being. There is no end to the deception, and self-deception of these "ex-gay" groups that I could denounce, so I'll haul up here.
Last time I checked, it was still a free country (although the Bill of Rights is still crumbling under Bush administrations assault). If someone wants to undergo a mix of faith-healing and pseudo-therapy that encourages the view that you are one of God's mistakes, but that you can live this down (if not actually "change") by 'faking it 'til you make it' to heterosexuality, well, be my guest.
I am not holding my breath waiting for apologies from Mr. Chambers for the preposterous quackery he snd others trade in.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/14/2006 12:35 PM
See...he ignored me again. Happens a lot. Can anyone here understand why I'm beyond annoyed?
posted by Regan, at
6/14/2006 1:58 PM
what a graceless bunch of ninnies. alan apologized. now kiss and move on!! you can go back to cat fighting later and on another issue.
posted by Anonymous, at
6/14/2006 3:22 PM
Anon, nobody's catfighting and I'll proudly wear my ninny badge. Thanks.
posted by Tim, at
6/14/2006 6:58 PM
I commend Mr. Chambers for disavowing the unconscionable and ignorant way in which DL Foster charaterized Wayne. Thanks, Alan, for doing the right thing - this time.
Done giving the exgay honcho who usually treats GLBT folks as being less than human a few deserved brownie points because he, for once, recognized that Wayne Besen was a human wronged by another? Good. Way to go, Alan. Good for you. Wayne appreciates it. I appreciate it. Many appreciate it. You did one good thing. Hooray. Perhaps there is hope for you as a member of the human family.
Now, let's focus on shedding light on your usual activity and the larger harms being done by those in the inhumane, disgusting and dangerous world of "exgay ministry" and so-called reparative therapy. You don't get a pass - even a temporary one - because you did one good thing (that easily can be seen as a move taken to shore up your own public image; don't assume that we can't see the benefit to you of standing up for Wayne or that we have any reason to believe something just because you say it).
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