Wednesday, December 05, 2007
(Weekly Column)
Last week, I wrote about the ManKind Project, a weekend retreat that tries to jolt men into dealing with deep personal issues. In the column, I discussed the troubling ties ManKind's New Warriors program has with ex-gay ministries, which aggressively tout the retreat in their efforts to supposedly instill masculinity in their clients.
It turns out, however, that the love affair may be one sided. The ManKind Project does not support ex-gay therapy and does not believe that their program helps gay men go straight. Indeed, New Warriors has a large gay following and many who attended consider it helpful to their coming out experience. I received more than 25 letters from gay men who said that the program helped them accept their sexual orientation.
"The ManKind Project gave me the confidence and wherewithal to finally say, 'I am a gay man,'" said one participant from Wisconsin.
"The program helped me become a better husband,' wrote another gay man from the Washington, DC area. "As I knocked down the walls, I became more comfortable with myself and able to give 100 percent to my partner. The program literally saved my relationship."
These letters are incongruous with the cheerleading ManKind receives from homophobic ex-gay groups, such as Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality (JONAH) and the website People Can Change. In fact, People Can Change director Ben Newman, who served as a trainee and co-staffer in the New Warrior program, started the ex-gay retreat, "Journey Into Manhood" with several other New Warriors.
So, is the ManKind Project's New Warriors program gay affirming or does it cater to ex-gay fringe groups?
I posed this question in a conference call with the group's Executive Director Carl Griesser. Well-known gay author Joe Kort - a vocal proponent of the organization - was also in on the conversation.
Griesser said he was troubled by the way ex-gay ministries had been promoting his group and that his organization did not support the ex-gay cause. He suggested they had misinterpreted what his group meant by instilling masculinity in men.
"There is a difference between masculinity and sexual orientation," Griesser said on the call. He pointed out that almost every New Warriors training session has at least one openly gay or bisexual man.
Kort, a psychotherapist, passionately defended the organization as a group that helps men "live in honesty and integrity...whatever their sexual orientation is."
"Straight men and gay men are all welcome and come together helping each other be part of the male culture even with the differences," explained Kort.
In fact, New Warriors has a position statement that flat out says, "We do not and will not attempt to change a man's sexual orientation." However, this statement is not currently on the group's website, making it difficult to know that ManKind is not an adjunct of the ex-gay ministries. Griesser said he would take this issue up with ManKind officials in a call later this week. I certainly hope that they take this issue seriously, as not to cause any confusion of what the group stands for.
In my previous column, I also discussed how the organization had some unorthodox activities. This includes:
** Blindfolded walking tours in the nude
** Men sitting in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called "The Cock"
** Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer
While this may seem bizarre to outsiders, Kort and Griesser defended the activities as helping men accept their bodies.
"There is so much shame about the body," said Griesser. "The nudity put me and others in an honest space to deal with the shame...the goal is to take men's sexuality out of the shadows."
Critics also point to the harsher aspects of the program, such as meeting participants with men in dark clothing and painted faces.
"We want to shake men up," said Griesser. "They can only be awakened if we shake them out of their routine."
There is also the problem of a lawsuit by the family of a Texas man who committed suicide after attending the program. They are charging that New Warriors is administering therapy without trained professionals.
"This is therapeutic, but not therapy," Griesser said. "It is a legal issue that will be addressed in this case."
Whatever one thinks of the group's tactics, it is clear that many gay men find it beneficial. It is also a relief that what ostensibly appears to be a program sympathetic to ex-gay ministries, is actually opposed to them. However, the ManKind Project must do more to publicly distance themselves from these dangerous groups. To downplay how ex-gay organizations have latched on to them, leaves the ManKind Project naked and fully exposed to criticism it might not deserve.
28 Comments:
If they refuse to post a disclaimer on their website distancing themselves from ex-gay ministries, then we'll know they give tacit support to them.
posted by , at
12/05/2007 12:53 PM
I think this has actually unintentionally highlighted the most common error in the philosophy of the ex-gay organizations, which is the belief that if you get gay men to play football and lesbians to walk in high heels, some "deficiency" in their masculinity or femininity will be cured, therefore placing them on the road to heterosexuality.
But being gay is seemingly a biological phenomenon, not something that's caused by any deficiency. The ex-gays are correct about ManKind being a worthwhile program for reclaiming one's masculinity, but they go wrong in failing to realize that such issues are shared by countless men, both gay and heterosexual.
It seems that the ManKind project does appropriately understand the truth about these things, and that is why both gay and heterosexual seem to benefit. It is rank error, however, to believe that the delivered benefit is a change in sexual orientation. The ManKind project would do well to have a little talk with the ex-gay crowd and explain to them that gay guys aren't that way because of the issues that their group helps people resolve, issues that confront all of us regardless of sexual orientation.
posted by , at
12/05/2007 1:37 PM
Wayne, I do have a question that was not addressed in the column.
What specifically do they mean when they say "instill masculinity" in men?
I ask this seriously, because when I read it, it sounds like they're trying to make gay men "straight acting" (for lack of a better word).
In response to emotion, such as joy or anger (or showtunes), some gay men are animated with facial expressions, eyes, eyebrows, hands, and wrists more than heterosexual counterparts.
I'd be interested in knowing what it means to "instill masculinity" into a man-- gay or straight.
posted by , at
12/05/2007 9:43 PM
The whole thing sounds pretty strange to me. I guess I am just old-fashioned and don't really see the need for a gathering like this. To each his own I guess.
posted by , at
12/06/2007 6:15 AM
Wayne, do secure men beat up gay men, no! Then why would you want to spend so much time cutting down one of the few organizations helping men become more secure? I think YOU own MKP, Gay men that did MKP and Straight men (like me) that did MKP an apology! Be a MAN about it and clean up the harm YOU DID to men! That is what men do when they make a mistake and do harm with the intention of good. Talk to more men yourself that did the weekend and just find one other group with a commitment to help men like this organization and be MORE than just your sexuality! It is not perfect but neither are YOU! I learned how to see Gay men as what they are men from the weekend and would have not if I did not go. If they make it too GAY affirming they will scare away the straight men like me to over come my issue.
I know it's in you Wayne.. clean it up what you did. Do more research by talking to men that did it! Stop hurting things that could bring more real compassion to Gay men. And THINK beyond your sexuality!
posted by , at
12/06/2007 8:28 AM
So, "straight men like me", stated *twice*, why are you reading this website? Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Oops, sorry, that didnt sound masculine enough. I thought Wayne did an admirable job of clearing up any misconceptions from the first column he wrote; or doesnt that count because he wasnt nude, holding the wooden dildo at the time? (We would all LOVE to see that!)
ps..it's 'straight men like I' (real men have good grammar).
Homer O'Seckshell
posted by , at
12/06/2007 9:24 AM
If Wayne had bothered to read the groups website, as I did after reading his column, he would have seen that they specifically stated that they were open and AFFIRMING to people of all sexual orientations and that NO group, other than the ones listed on their websites, were connected to MKP and if any group claimed to be they were lying. It was all there in black and white.
Anyway, I want to thank Wayne for drawing my attention to this group. It really seemed providential. My church (Tampa United Church of Christ) has been watching "The Power of Myth" series with Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell and we just saw the one that discussed the need of men to have initiations or rituals to feel fully incorporated into a society and to feel that they had "achieved" manhood. At first I was offended by the notion, but the more I considered it the more it made sense to me, especially in light of thousands of years and thousands of cultures that have practiced "manhood" rites. We discussed, "what do we use as "manhood" initiations in America today and are these initiations helpful or harmful? What are healthy alternatives? We concluded that military service (bootcamp) and gangs are the main forms of male initiation in America today and both are less than perfect at best and terribly negative at worst. When it came to the question of "what are the positive alternatives?" no one could come up with ANYTHING. As a self-proclaimed masculist this really disturbed me. Then, like an omen, I come home and read Wayne's article. In the comments someone mentioned that MKP based its program on the Joseph Campbell "Myth" and "Initiation" principles. That sparked my curiosity to, rather than blindly accept Wayne's portrayal of them, go to their website and do some research. EUREKA! I was blown away by EVERYTHING I read. It all made perfect sense to me in light of what I had come to understand about the importance of Myth and Ritual and Initiation Rites. I signed up for the next available gathering in my area. I can't wait!
So thanks Wayne. It may not have been your intent but you were at the right place at the right time with the right information for me to discover MKP.
Perhaps Wayne should go to one of the MKP gatherings himself so that he can report back to his readers with actual, hands on knowledge about this group rather than blindly reporting what ex-gay groups, who we know to be full of lies, have to say about it.
That would seem to be the responsible thing to do.
Zeke in Tampa
posted by , at
12/06/2007 10:18 AM
I contacted JONAH about their support for MKP, since light has come upon their gay-affirming stance, but JONAH has not gotten back to me. (but that's no surprise...)
posted by Emily K, at
12/06/2007 9:10 PM
I'm glad you revisited this issue with more accurate info Wayne.
But just to be a bitch and play devil's advocate, everyone should remember that they're still practicing things that could be considered "therapy" - and not necessarily with training or license.
And I too question what is meant by "masculinity", or how they would regard an effeminate gay man, would they welcome his gender expression and mannerisms, and accept them as just another way of experiencing and expressing being a man? Or would they equate them with not being masculine, and what would their reaction to them be?
And I am also very suspicious about the romanticizing and borrowing of primitive rites and rituals by people who don't live in or understand those cultures.
If you actually read Joseph Campbell's work, or anything about tribal initiations, you find that many cultures' ideas of initiation involve such things as circumcision and subincision.
I think Campbell is too often worshiped like a religious figure or guru these days. He's just a scholar people, you don't really need to put in practice what he writes about other cultures.
And I don't think partaking in some quasi-religious event is what makes someone a man - being a mature, thinking adult should be about knowledge, responsibility, critical thinking, compassion, courage, confidence - things that you learn over the course of your life, not something that you can soak up in a mystical ceremony on a weekend retreat.
Just my feelings. Be safe people.
posted by , at
12/07/2007 1:34 AM
JJ in Chicago asked
What specifically do they mean when they say "instill masculinity" in men?
It is "instilling mature masculinity" which means integrity, honesty, responsibility, love, honor, respect and other virtues and values about being a mature man.
It is not about straight acting in any way at all.
You could say that all men and women should have these values. However our culture does not help men--especially gay men--behave in mature ways and be accountable for their own behaviors and words.
MKP stresses deep emotional work. They preach that even if you cry and feel deeply you are still a man.
They try to correct the misconception that being a man is only about being straight acting.
Hope that helps.
Warmly, Joe Kort
posted by Joe Kort, at
12/07/2007 10:35 AM
Homophobia is devastating to gay people, but it is also devastating to heterosexual men, too, and in a very profound way. I see many heterosexual men who put on "the act", but I see right through it and I feel sad for them. It would be impossible to count the things that have been robbed from them due to these unhealthy life-stunting beliefs.
posted by , at
12/07/2007 1:49 PM
Anonymous who said "Be A Man" Darlin, you must be latino? How is that for more isms? You are silly. Wayne Besen is a man and does not need to cater to your fragile thinking or play victim to your misplaced machismo.
posted by , at
12/07/2007 10:14 PM
The FIRST sentence on the Mankind Project website indicates that " The ManKind Project® is a progressive men's organization striving to be increasingly inclusive and affirming of cultural differences, especially with respect to color, class, sexual orientation, faith, age, ability, ethnicity, and nationality." This statement has been on their website for years! I've been involved with this group for 10+ years and they have always been gay affirming and gay welcoming.
Mr. Besen, thanks for the milk toasty clarification regarding your poorly researched piece but come on...you didn't even look at the first sentence of their website and make a few simple phone calls? Your credibility and journalistic standards seem to be rock bottom.
posted by , at
12/11/2007 2:25 PM
I am an openly gay man. And, if anything, the New Warrior community assisted me in reaching a greater acceptance of myself. They did this by affirming me "just as I am", by letting me know that I am just as much a man being gay as a straight man...
I, myself, had issues about being gay...subconsciously, I felt that I was "less of a man" for being gay...that I was not "equal" to straight men...and these thoughts were in the way of me living "fully and freely" in the world.
The weekend allowed me to realize this...and I started my journey of not "giving my power away"...I was giving it away by believing straight men were my superiors...I now proudly stand in my authenticity...I am now an authentic gay man, I do not allow limiting thoughts to keep me playing "small" in life (especially around my sexuality)...my life is now awesome and exciting...my straight Warrior brothers remind me of this on an on-going basis....yes, the community is there for me beyond the initial weekend...I now have so many straight men in my life who accept me and love me unconditionally...imagine a world full of "straight" men with this love and acceptance...my life was truly transformed...as a man among men, I am free!
There are no defamatory and "one-sided" articles about this organization that can take that away from me...I received many "gifts" on the weekend...and NO ONE can ever take that away.
I have this organization to thank for how I now live my life...
And by the way, the "sexuality" piece was just a small part of the weekend for me...there was so much more to it than that...do the weekend!
posted by , at
1/10/2008 7:00 PM
In February 2002, my life partner died of HIV. His family prevented me from being with him for the last 2 weeks of his life. I did the New Warrior Training Adventure weekend in 2002, only 5 months after his death. This work gave me the opportunity to greive in a deep, meaningful and profound way...I felt supported, loved, embraced, acccepted. I walked away from the weekend experience with a newly reclaimed piece of my soul, the piece that had been snatched away from me by those who did not recognize me as my partner's "husband." Through the ManKind Project's work, I was able to claim my power as a gay man, as a life partner, and as someone who had lost his husband. And all done in the presence of straight men willing to hear me, support me, embrace me, tell me that I was a beautiful human being. I can't imagine my life without having done the Warrior training. And I can't imagine a gay man actually thinking that this organization would be anything but supportive.
posted by Warren Morales, at
1/11/2008 9:48 AM
I’m writing to challenge your ignorance and bias regarding the article on the Mankind Project. I think it is time for you to hear this story from a MKP brother who happens to be gay---and Deaf!
I did my NWTA weekend in 2004. Initially, I had my doubts because I am Deaf and I wasn’t sure how I could benefit from attending this weekend---since it consisted entirely of hearing men who knew nothing about sign language or providing interpreters. Yet, I thought to myself, “why not?” So, I signed up, not knowing that there were surprises waiting for me.
The moment I arrived, I was met by two hearing men, who volunteered to come in from out of state to interpret for me. They are both educators/advocates of the deaf who had done the weekend training themselves. I learned that only two deaf men had done this NWTA before me. I was the third deaf man. My weekend made a strong and lasting impression on me for a long time.
I thought my weekend was just an exception, but what came after NWTA is a tremendous, powerful, and positive experience for me. I made a strong connection with several hearing men who were with me during my NWTA weekend. Oddly enough, the majority of these men who are my friends happen to be straight and they accept me for who I am.
Moreover, I was astonished at every turn with the extraordinary lengths that hearing men in MKP community at large goes to in accommodating my needs. For instance, I never asked for any accommodations, having as I do what I consider realistic expectations of hearing people about meeting my communication needs. Oh, boy, I was dead wrong!
Since my weekend, men treated me as equal and as one of them---in every aspect of MKP community life whether it is in a workshop, staffing a weekend, or running a group meeting for instance. These men had literally demolished my old expectations for good. Never again, I will underestimate the power of Mankind Project.
It is no question for me that MKP indeed meets its mission; to empower men to fulfill their potential, that it is inclusive and affirms cultural differences, as well as other differences. It remains persistence in creating and fostering a safe and challenging environment for target groups. Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing NWTA is a perfect example. We now have 20 deaf/hard-of-hearing brothers from all over the United States. Out of these 20 men, 17 are gay/ bisexual and 3 are straight.
It would not have happened without my support and involvement if I think otherwise regarding in terms of physical, psychological, emotional, and spiritual safety. Hosting a Deaf/HH NWTA---is enough message itself for obvious reasons.
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posted by , at
3/19/2008 9:27 PM
心中一阵不安升降机，因为我忽然又想起了那道剑光升降平台，可怕的剑光升降台，美丽的剑光登车桥。为什么那一剑是那么的美丽货架，却又那么的可怕呢集装袋？在我倒下之前我说地磅，好美的剑塑料托盘，好恨的剑塑料托盘。我倒下了仓储笼。在我失去知觉之前仓储笼，我听到他说北京货架，这叫艺术超市货架，剑的艺术北京货架。
我并没有死广州货架，原来我的心是在右边仓储货架，而是不是左边货架厂。所以在那穿胸一剑之下我并没有死南京货架。
是一阵暴雨把我冲醒了货架公司。听说雨是上天的眼泪深圳货架，也许这天又有人死在那美丽的剑光之下吧服装货架！我张开嘴巴托盘，任雨水打进我的嘴托盘，直冲我的胃塑料托盘。我的伤口又开始流血塑料托盘，但已经不痛了木托盘。试问：仓储笼一个心已经死了的人仓储笼，肉体上的疼痛又算得了什么呢仓储笼？我知道我的刀再练一百年也无法那么美丽仓储笼，那么恨托盘，而且永远别想杀了他托盘。
我退出江湖了手推车，我没有通知江湖上的朋友们静音手推车，并来一个什么金盆洗手静音手推车，因为我的朋友们差不多都被他杀了置物架。我悄悄的走了置物架，隐进了山林之中堆垛架。俨然一个世外高人的样子堆垛架，每天一壶绿茶登高车，放在身边的几上登高车，然后或盯着一朵白云超市手推车，或盯着一片树叶物流手推车，或双目紧闭物流台车。我的刀在玉盆中泡了七七四十九天角钢货架，已经没有血腥味了角钢货架。然后我把它放在我的屋顶轻型货架，任它风吹雨打轻型货架。
十年就这年过去了中型货架。为何今天天忽然想起那柄剑中型货架，那道剑光重型货架？而且内心为什么如此不安重型货架？不应该是这样的仓库货架，对于一个喝了十年绿茶的人来说服装货架，面对死上海货架，也已不再惧怕精品货架，不再不安苏州货架，但今天又为何如此呢托盘货架？
莫非是他青岛货架，和他的剑库房货架，加上他的剑光沈阳货架。我已不问江湖之事天津货架，想他十年前也应该坐上武林盟主的位子了杭州货架，一个武林中人做了武林盟主山东货架，这一生还有什么要求的呢文件柜？
我不停的喝着绿茶工具柜。绿茶静心工具柜。但此时怎么也静不下来零件柜。茶已尽工作台。平时茶尽之时工作台，正也是日落之时工作桌。
一定快有什么事情发生了工作桌。
剑还是那美丽的剑Google左侧排名，如果再加上一道剑光吹塑机，就会形成剑的艺术色带，武学的艺术电源插座。
我问反光背心：为何还来找我滚针轴承，我已在十年之前就退出江湖了夜光粉。
他说文化石：因为你没死缎带，因为我没有对手风火轮。
我说激光打标机：十年前已不是你的对手平衡机，何况现在十年未动刀大功率led。
他说磁力泵：放眼天下梯子，只有你一个人是我的对手网眼袋，也只你一个人对我的威胁无尘布。
我不再说话手摇手电筒，因为我不知道说什么手板，我知道我十年前就开始找我毛巾布，发现我没有死就开始找我磁钢。我不死促销台，他心不安模具钢材。
他说时尚配饰：拿出你的刀筛网。
我说齿轮泵：我已无刀天使花房，命托辊，亦可有可无色丁。
他盯着我广告衫，握剑的手越来越紧钢坯，我知道那道美丽的剑光可能随时发出过滤网。在那美丽过后疏水阀，我的生命将画上句号胸章。
阳光照在了刀上发热管，反射到他的脸上手机耳机。他发现了那把刀螺杆，我的刀插销，宝刀蝴蝶，没有鞘的刀工具包。
刀已在我手中点钞机，刀还是那把刀配电箱，人却已不是那个人流苏，因为心不是那颗心沙滩巾。
他为了杀我竟找了我十年氯化镁，而为了和我比武竟帮我从屋顶拿下我的刀来双面胶带，并放在我的手中碳纤维。我忽然发现排线，他也变了汽车座垫，他在后悔十年前将所有高手都杀绝珍珠奶茶。
高手的悲哀太阳伞。
我握紧了刀桥架，我看着他的眼tpr，已经不再像十年前那样明亮了钢丝。
他的剑划出柴油发电机组，划出一道美丽的剑光护栏。我想围栏，这十年他大概在不停地使自己的剑光更美围栏。
我的刀也出了隔离网。简单的动作隔离网，一刀刺进了他的胸网片。那道美丽的光忽然停止网片，停在我的衣服上南京货架。
他说北京货架：这也是艺术北京货架，杀人的艺术北京货架，想不到你十年不动刀还懂这个艺术仓储货架。
我说仓储货架：因为我不想再让你痛苦了广州货架。
他说广州货架：谢谢货架厂。
我走了货架公司。我头也不回的走了塑料托盘。没有取回我的刀塑料托盘，因为我觉得它在我身边已经没用塑料托盘，我后悔我十年前为什么不扔了它塑料托盘？我听到了尸体倒下的声音塑料托盘。我流泪了塑料托盘，我真的不想杀他仓储笼，十年前不想仓储笼，十年后也不想仓储笼，因为我下山时答应过师父仓储笼，一切让着他仓储笼。
我叹了一口气仓储笼。远去仓储笼。
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heels and hoes -
her first throatjob -
hood hunter -
horny spanish flies -
housewives in action -
im live -
in focus girls -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jordan capri -
lacey white -
latin love line -
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lightspeed 18 -
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mr skin -
my gay roommates -
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ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
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public invasion -
rachel 18 -
rainbow vip -
real ass munchers -
real brazil hardcore -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
ronni tuscadero -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
see her squirt -
she got switched -
she takes it black -
shocking parties -
stacy bride -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
sweet devon -
tawnee stone -
taylor little -
teen movie zone -
teeny bopper club -
terry lightspeed -
tgirl adventures -
tgirl island -
tgirls on girls -
the big swallow -
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faith lightspeed -
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first time auditions -
giants black meat white treat -
gigi lightspeed -
got fooled -
heather lightspeed -
heels and hoes -
her first throatjob -
hood hunter -
horny spanish flies -
housewives in action -
im live -
in focus girls -
in the vip -
i spy camel toe -
jordan capri -
lacey white -
latin love line -
lesbian teen hunter -
lesbo 101 -
lightspeed 18 -
lightspeed dvds -
lightspeed girls -
lightspeed sorority -
lightspeed tv -
lightspeed university -
lightspeed world -
little troublemaker -
lonely wives dating club -
mandy lightspeed -
man hookups -
meaty man movies -
men over 30 -
mike in brazil -
mikes apartment -
milf challenge -
milf hunter -
milf lessons -
milf next door -
milf whore -
moms creampie -
monsters of cock -
mr big dicks hot chicks -
mr chews asian beaver -
mr skin -
my gay roommates -
nikki grinds -
ox pass -
panties and fannies -
papi -
pimp my black teen -
please bang my wife -
public invasion -
rachel 18 -
rainbow vip -
real ass munchers -
real brazil hardcore -
reality kings -
reality pass plus -
ronni tuscadero -
round and brown -
round mound of ass -
sammy4u -
sapphic erotica -
see her squirt -
she got switched -
she takes it black -
shocking parties -
stacy bride -
street blowjobs -
street ranger -
sweet devon -
tawnee stone -
taylor little -
teen movie zone -
teeny bopper club -
terry lightspeed -
tgirl adventures -
tgirl island -
tgirls on girls -
the big swallow -
throat jobs -
tinys black adventures -
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bare foot maniacs -
barely legal -
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big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
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big tits round asses -
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blondes of porn -
boys first time -
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brandi belle -
brandy didder -
britney lightspeed -
bruno b -
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coeds need cash -
college party dates -
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cumfiesta -
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dirty aly -
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easy drunk girls -
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erica lightspeed -
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evitas playhouse -
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facial humiliation -
faith lightspeed -
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