You can purchase an autographed copy of Anything But Straight by sending a $35 check or money order to:
-------------------------
Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
A traveling national conference billed as an event "to provide help for those struggling - and those whose loved ones struggle - with unwanted same-sex attractions," drew about 700 people to a Mountain View church on Saturday.
The gathering at the evangelical Christian church, Abundant Life Christian Fellowship, also drew a small protest by members of the Bay Area's gay and lesbian community incensed by the conference topic, the longstanding controversy on whether gays can be "converted" - or turned into so-called "ex-gays" through a Christian "step out" program.
Wayne Besen, executive director of Truth Wins Out, a New York City-based non-profit that tracks the "ex-gay" issue, led the protest of about 25 gay men and lesbians outside the church.
"It's false advertising," said Besen, author of a book, "Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth."
"There's no one there who's going to be ex-gay," he said.
33 Comments:
Just a question. How do you know when someone is gay?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/14/2008 3:42 PM
The same way you know anything - evidence.
Such as:
1. They tell you they're gay.
2. They primarily have romantic or sexual thoughts about members of the same sex, which if they don't openly admit to it, can sometimes be inferred from their behavior; for example you might notice your guy friend constantly stares at other dudes' packages and drools a little. And then you notice he's got a raging hard on.
3. They primarily have romantic or sexual encounters with members of the same sex, which if they don't admit to it, can also sometimes be inferred from their behavior; for example you catch a dude trying to pick up other dudes in a seedy Washington D.C. gay bar. Or someone of the same sex might be currently having sex with you. That would be a clue.
posted by Eshto, at
4/14/2008 6:40 PM
The easiest way is to just ask them.
posted by Anonymous, at
4/14/2008 6:43 PM
Okay - so how do you someone is NOT gay?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/14/2008 7:16 PM
They wear tacky clothes, cant cook and have shitty landscaping, but people who ask about how to recognize whether someone is gay or not are the biggest flaming queens in the galaxy.
posted by Anonymous, at
4/14/2008 8:34 PM
Really? So, if you can keep a garden looking good, and cook and wear fashionable clothes - you're gay? And if you can't do those things then you're not gay?
Seriously - how do you tell if someone is not gay?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/14/2008 8:55 PM
Well umm it's much more subtle than that. It's not really about cooking or cleaning (that's just silly....as I hate those things)
It's just, straight guys don't really have anything emotional or reflected in them. You can still think they are hot, but it's like....they don't bounce that likeability back. They can still be very affable and friendly to you, and it's easy to get crushes on them sometimes but another real gay man kinda just I don't know, lifts up your spirits? (Assuming you're just not used to being around other gay guys, seeing another gay man for the first time is awkward, amazing, wonderful, scary and erotic.) But above all....comfortable, without being boring. You can finally be yourself and approach them in a way you always wanted to approach guys but couldn't.
Some gay guys purposefully are stereotypical simply to attract other gay men and the people they want in their lives. It might be cheapening that moment though when you can just look in another man's soul and know that he's gay no matter what he wears.
Fuck this sissy shit. Let's all play some ball with Wayne! Tee hee.
posted by Anonymous, at
4/15/2008 12:28 AM
ANONYMOUS, how do YOU know if someone is gay or straight?
From my personal experience, there are many factors, overtly gay men aside.
Usually, its when another supposedly straight male checks you out, some do it rather furtively to not attract attention, especially when they're with their wives or significant others; sometimes chemistry comes into play, you know by instinct and its almost always unspoken; the way a man may give you a prolonged tight handshake and not release his hand until you do; at family functions such as weddings for example, a male, often married males, will seek you out and give you a lot of attention, there are several married males in my family and distant family who do this, leaving their wives or girlfriends to fend for themselves while they give me their undivided attention and they're usually pro-gay and support gay equality. In essence, if an apparently straight male is persistent in checking you out, chances are he's not as straight as he thinks he is. Of course, it can be mistaken but most of the time in my experience its not. You just know. Some remain married and never dally with the same sex for fear of discovery, stigma and financial ruin. Its complex and not so black and white. I think most gay people have an inherent ability to figure out who is gay in the majority of cases, nowadays its called "gaydar". We're usually right too with a small margin of error figured into the equation of course.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
4/15/2008 8:35 AM
"How do we know when someone is gay?"
1 - When homosex is all the person obsesses about, even if they claim they are "straight".
2 - When a person claims to be "ex-gay", yet they make a living by yapping daily about homosex.
3 - When a person claims to be "straight", yet he has several ads posted on ManHunt.
4 - When the person trolls bath-houses, filming men having sex, and calling it "research".
5 - When the guy is married and suggests his son be named something faggoty, like "Ian", "Caleb", or "Gavin".
6 - When the guy is making a living being an "ex-gay", yet he can't stay out of the gay bars.
7 - When a guy claims to be "ex-gay", even though he is nothing more than a celibate boor.
8 - When the guy is obsessed over the movie "300".
9 - If the guy writes for World Net Daily.
10 - If the guy feels the need to brag that he's "straight".
Robert, if you're out and these 'straight' guys flock around you to 'show support', you must be a hottie. ;-) Scott, your list gave me a good chuckle.
posted by Anonymous, at
4/15/2008 12:00 PM
"Some gay guys purposefully are stereotypical simply to attract other gay men and the people they want in their lives. It might be cheapening that moment though when you can just look in another man's soul and know that he's gay no matter what he wears.
Fuck this sissy shit. Let's all play some ball with Wayne! Tee hee. "
Uh-huh...
And some gay guys have trouble dealing with their internalized homophobia, so they project, and they sit around making judgments about effeminate men, or others they have decided fit the "stereotype", like they assume other people's mannerisms are intentional, to grab attention or sex or some other goal, rather than the possibility that, hey, some people are effeminate and like to be flamboyant because it suits their personalities.
And then they attempt to judge those people's experiences and relationships as "cheap".
How do you know then - when someone claims to be ex gay and you KNOW they are not?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/15/2008 8:11 PM
Eshto, you have a point. Many straight men, maybe the majority of them I would think harbor a lot of internalized homophobia.
Over the years, I'm always amazed when I hear from my single gay friends when they're in bi or even gay chat rooms come up against an apparently often posed question to them...."are you masculine"? That of course is evidence of internalized homophobia, among other things and proves that most of them really don't know us well enough, or choose not to.
Scott, I don't know if I'm a hottie or not, I must be ok living with my partner for the past fifteen years. I really don't do anything deliberate to attract "straight" males. This usually happens when my partner and I are together at straight functions. We're out of the closet of course, we're not what you would call "overtly" gay, we blend in just like most except being with a male instead of a female does in some way give them cause to perceive us as gay and that's ok, not an issue.
We are all at different levels of coming out, some don't, some won't for various reasons, but I will say one thing...coming out for my partner and I was the best thing we ever did. Straight society gets a chance to know who we are and how we live and in the end, they realize we're really no different than any other couple. They may or may not agree with our sexual orientation but at least it helps them understand that our lives are as valid as theirs, that love, happiness and respect for others irrespective of differences are what matters more than anything else. My advice, be yourselves as best you can.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
4/16/2008 8:26 AM
Robert,
Even if that person claims to be ex gay?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/16/2008 11:34 AM
"How do you know then - when someone claims to be ex gay and you KNOW they are not?"
That one's easy - there's no such thing as "ex-gay".
Whoever claims to be "ex-gay" is nothing more than a paid shill for evangelicals. Is there any "ex-gay" out there who doesn't make a living solely by flaunting their sexuality? None that I know of.
Plus it's my understanding that more than half of the most well-known "ex-gays" popped out of nowhere, and have no past as an openly gay person.
The "ex-gays" who aren't married have no romantic relationships with women, and being celibate isn't changing your sexual orientation. Being celibate just means you're missing out; has nothing to do with "gay" or "straight".
My conclusion - "ex-gay" = brainwashed and money-grubbing gay person who's paid to say they've changed their orientation. And they're nothing more.
posted by Scott, at
4/16/2008 6:31 PM
One more thought I'd like to add:
I find it hilarious that the loony evangelicals claim "there's no such thing as gay", and then immediately will flash off one of their so-called "ex-gays" - all the while DESCRIBING them as "ex-gay".
So if there's no such thing as "gay", how can "ex-gays" exist?
No troll, stop mixing up what I said - as you've done before (likely Phelan).
Of those 2 things you played switcheroo with my words, what I said was:
Evangelicals are loony for claiming "there's no such thing as gay", then turning around and parading off their "ex-gays", as they call them. How can you be parading off "ex-gay" people, when you claim there's no such thing as gay people?
and
Many of the "ex-gays" have no past as an openly gay person. For instance, one well-known "ex-gay" claims he was a gay activist and all up in his GLBT community, although nobody in his city gay community seems to ever remember him, at all.
posted by Scott, at
4/17/2008 10:36 AM
So Scott - is that what ex gay is?
posted by Anonymous, at
4/17/2008 11:55 AM
Seems that for as many people who read this no one has a real answer to that question. Just a lot of name calling, gestures and hatred.
posted by Anonymous, at
4/17/2008 12:16 PM
"So Scott - is that what ex gay is?"
Tricky, tricky - I'm not going to agree to anything unless you say exactly what I'm supposed to believe what an "ex-gay" is LOL
posted by Scott, at
4/17/2008 1:20 PM
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