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Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
In a startling turn of events, writer David Benkof - formerly David Bianco - has closed down his blog, Gays Defend Marriage, and vowed to stay out of the fight in California. In a statement to Truth Wins Out, Benkof said the following:
"I no longer feel comfortable being allied with the people running the Prop. 8 campaign, and the same-sex marriage movement in America in general, with a few exceptions - most notably Maggie Gallagher. I have made a tentative decision not to publicize the disturbing information that caused me to end my promotion of man-woman marriage in the United States. But there is very little that I know about those subjects that a journalist, blogger, or activist cannot find out through diligent googling and asking the right questions of the Prop. 8 campaign."
Benkof had made waves in recent weeks with a string of high-profile anti-gay op-eds in major mainstream newspapers, including the Minneapolis Star Tribune and the San Francisco Chronicle.
We are pleased that Benkof has decided to do the right thing and step aside. It is also helpful that he has raised the red flag about the people running Prop. 8.
28 Comments:
Wayne,
Maybe he took your advice from the TWO blog, and got on some much-needed meds!
And might I also suggest him going to Petsmart, and getting something for all of those flea bites. Poor critter, lying next to all of those mangy dogs all this time! LOL
posted by Scott, at
7/14/2008 2:22 AM
Scott-
It's not polite to gloat. I have surrendered unilaterally. What else do you want from me? Your continued ad hominem attacks do not reflect well upon your character.
posted by David Benkof, at
7/14/2008 3:24 AM
Scott,
As a gay man I defend the right for anyone to be married. However, I am deeply appalled at your post. Could we rise above the name calling please?
While I understand David has ruffled up some feathers during his fight, it is still no reason to treat him with disrespect. He has given up his fight. And for whatever those reasons are he at least had the courage to publically announce it. He could have simply just walked away.
Please don't twist my words as if I'm gloating - I was being dead serious. What I said is a take on the phrase "if you lay with the dogs, expect to get fleas". Please get a sense of humour.
In order to gloat, I would have to gain satisfaction of the situation.
Beings 'Gays For Marriage' didn't really exist to me to begin with, and had only visited it once - whether or not you discontinued your efforts has no effect on me whatsoever. I don't live in California; nor did I ever care enough about you to consider you a threat. Just nutty, that's all. You still are.
Some "ex-gay" organization busted for some big-time fraud - now THAT would be something for me to gloat about! LOL
posted by Scott, at
7/14/2008 6:32 AM
Scott-
Please note that what I have learned about my former allies has caused me to change my public position on the man-woman marriage issue, but I have not withdrawn my other points of view on all issues relating to gays and lesbians.
If, for example, you would like me to back off from my frequently stated position that many if not most gay men are "selfish and cruel," your current approach is unlikely to be very effective.
posted by David Benkof, at
7/14/2008 8:19 AM
Hello David,
I am glad that you decided to step away from the marriage initiative. No gloating and no personal attacks from me.
Perhaps in time, you can tell us what was said from your former allies that caused this. But that's up to you.
With regards to the statement about "most gay men" being "selfish and cruel", I'm sure you're aware that there is no scientific data to support that claim.
I'm not saying that hasn't been your experience (if, in fact, it has).
If you believe that about gay men, then perhaps you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.
The blogosphere is not representative of gay men or women, as I suspect you were personally attacked online from your position on marriage.
Gay life isn't about Chelsea, Provincetown, DuPont Circle, Chicago's Boystown, or the Castro.
We are not a monolithic bunch that is joined at the hip, although some gay men and women like to think of us as one so-called "LGBT community", which was really borne out of political expediency (most notably for ENDA-- which backfired). There was no such "LGBT" term before the early 1990's.
There are plenty of good people in the gay and lesbian community, who think for themselves, who are not beholden to the national non-profits and who make great contributions to their community.
I also wish Mr. Benkof well in his other work. He has shown a knack for getting published and he's a skillful writer. I'm certainly glad he won't be working for the other side.
And, he has informed us that we should look closer at who is running the Prop 8 campaign. That is certainly helpful and we should take his advice and scrutinize these folks.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
7/14/2008 10:10 AM
It is very weird to me that he continues to use terms like "man-woman marriage issue" and "defending marriage." Heterosexual marriage remains EXACTLY THE SAME whether same-sex couples get equal rights or not. He might want to think about the fact that when ATTACKING the right of same-sex couple to make their own marital decisions, he has to resort tothis sort of verbal game-playing instead of calling things what they are.
Jj in Chicago, I concur totally. We are a diverse group, as diverse as any other. In my experience, most Gay people I know are not selfish or cruel, no more than most straight people are. The stereotyping has to stop before we can make progress. People on both sides need to educate themselves more and learn to respect one another when we differ. Where I part ways are those who brow-beat with their religious convictions and that to me is not appropriate to justify one's views, religious or otherwise. Religion is chosen as well as a lifestyle, ours, contrary to opinion, is not. Religion is a personal choice and as such, should be confined to the home where it belongs. The sooner those with differing views learn and respect that, the better off we'll be and we'll be able to move ahead, all of us.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
7/14/2008 10:47 AM
David: You mentioned your "frequently stated position that many if not most gay men are selfish and cruel". I have never encountered you before, so I am curious -- do you have a position on what "many if not most" straight men are?
posted by Anonymous, at
7/14/2008 11:01 AM
here are a lot of things I could say about this. I have no problem seeing intellectual dishonesty and fundamentalist moral certainty receive its comeuppance, and i think Benkof typifies both. But that has been addressed elsewhere and at length.
I will offer a story and a thought. I was involved on a research basis back in 1969 with the the pro-choice side when Hawaii introduced a liberalized abortion law. As a gay boy of 19 with a very sheltered place in the world, I wasn’t sure how I felt about abortion. I didn’t even know such a thing was possible! But I was smart enough to recognize the fundamental dishonesty of the anti-abortion crowd. I was especially appalled at three things: 1) the practice of showing aborted babies on large placards– any surgery is messy and bloody and yucky, especially 40 years ago– instead of dealing with the issues. 2) the complete lack of concern for back-alley abortions, other than to say– don’t. 3) the resources that were going into trhe legal campaign instead of providing alternatives to abortion.
Then, as now, in both abortion and the place of gay people in our society, it was very clear that abortion was not really the concern, but power, money, prestige, religious fundamentalism, and validation.
I ended up supporting abortion rights not because I thought abortion was a good idea– I still don’t– but because the anti-abortion crowd was just so APPALLING.
Perhaps Benkof has found that out–finally. And i suspect that it has something to do with a remark offered by F Bailey Smith, then president of the Soputhern Baptists, 30 years ago. I’m sure Benkof knows what that remark was, and I suspect he just encountered the attitude one time too many. Paraphrasing I think timothy some time ago, scrath a homophobe, and you’ll probably see the dull sheeny of an anti-semite.
Finally, Mr. benkof, if you are going to complain about ad hominem attacks, you would do well to examine your comment: “my frequently stated position that many if not most gay men are ’selfish and cruel’.” That’s right up there with Mr. smith above. Gay men as a group are not, in my experience, different from straight men, except that they don’t limit their enjoyment of male genitalia to their own. 90% of the people I have known in my life are kind, generous, warm, loving people, gay or straight. Certainly, my friends are– gay and straight.
If you have a different experience of gay men, maybe you are just hanging around the wrong kind of gay men. Or maybe, just maybe, the obvious fact that you don’t like yourself very much means that the people whom you hang aorund don’t like you very much either. you would do well to read “I’m OK, You’re OK”, and see if it applies to you.
posted by ben in oakland, at
7/14/2008 12:17 PM
If David is sincere, i now hope he joins the side to combat the hate against us. I will not say congratulations though. It is expected of you to do the right thing David. I am really proud of you though and i thank you for not making our journey harder than it already is.
posted by ewe, at
7/14/2008 1:00 PM
If David has had a genuine change of heart, then he should be forgiven and welcomed back into our midst. All human beings make mistakes, not always like this, but if he has seen the truth about those who would marginalize, dehumanize and stigmatize gay people, then he deserves forgiveness and the opportunity for redemption. However, he must do his penance as well and must work to prove himself now.
David, it really isn't true that gay people alone are "selfish and cruel." I think ALL human beings have that sad ability. If you have had a negative experience, it is important not to extrapolate it to condemn the entire community of millions.
I have met gays who are terrific people, the kind you think you'd meet in Heaven. On the other hand, I have met the small-minded, vicious type too. But I have seen the exact same behavior amongst heterosexuals, too. Some are warm and wonderful, while others are just infuriating and petty. All people can be hurtful to us.
A heterosexual writer for New York Magazine recently lamented having to come home after work and recall the "various humiliations of the day" each and every day. It is the same for all of us. We ALL get hurt, and sometimes we cause that very pain to others, too.
posted by Chris L., at
7/14/2008 1:27 PM
I, for one, welcome David--I'm sure he got the message loud and clear from those opposing equal marriage just how welcome he was, as a gay man, in their hate-filled midst.
posted by Anonymous, at
7/14/2008 1:31 PM
I don't believe David has come around, but like all those "conservatives of other sexualities" he has merely found another group to dislike and disagree with. His discourse over at Pam's House Blend is quite revelatory.
posted by chandler in lasvegas, at
7/14/2008 2:03 PM
Just for the record pertaining to us 'cruel and selfish' gays, statistics have shown that we do more volunteer work than most other groups. During the worst days of the AIDS crisis in the 80s, I knew more than a few men who were AIDS buddies and went to the homes of men they didnt even know to feed, bathe and yes change their diapers and administer medication; so much for the 'selfish' part. As for cruel, we are also one of the least violent groups in the world. Gay bars RARELY have fights break out and police love doing security for pride parades and events because it's such an easy non-troublesome event. I agree that gay men have a talent for witty and often caustic humor, but this is largely a psychological response to being an oppressed and marginalized minority. I've noticed that other minorities also have this 'talent', African Americans in particular. As equality and self-esteem grow, this type of sardonic verbiage will undoubtedly diminish. Not to belabor the point, but all wars (including the current ones) are started, run and maintained by heterosexual (and often religious) men; and a year or so ago, a sociological report came out that revealed how fundamentalist and evangelical 'christians' watch and enjoy more violent movies and games than the rest of us. The Passion of the Christ was so loved and watched and promoted by this group not so just because it was about Jesus, but because it was filled with violence, gore and blood; to the point that it reached a medical absurdity. Jesus lost so much blood in this film that he would have died before the first nail was even driven in.
posted by Anonymous, at
7/14/2008 2:06 PM
David, maybe the gay men you have met appear cruel to you because they are angry, since you keep making sweeping, anti-gay generalizations and attacks on civil equality? I know from what I've read of your work, you have given me absolutely no reason at all to show you respect or kindness. All you have made me do is feel sorry for you. And you have been quite happy to throw my rights under the bus and spread misinformation about me and all gay people despite never having met most of us.
I consider myself a good person, and I have countless gay friends and they are all wonderful, caring and hard-working people. My partner is the most honest and compassionate person I know, which is why I love him.
I've also met some gay people who were selfish jackasses. And on the other hand I have met hundreds of selfish, bigoted straight people in my lifetime, as well as straights who were terrific people.
David perhaps if you began treating others like human beings and judging individuals by the content of their character, you would find better friends than the bigots you have been hanging out with.
I'm happy for the turn of events, but I'm not going to congratulate this guy for anything, especially since he was so willing to fight equality but now refuses to even cite the reasons why he's giving up that fight. He shouldn't have been doing any of it in the first place, he's still a bigot and he still has a lot of seriously messed up issues to deal with.
Ideally, the best thing for him would probably be to meet more healthy gay people to see we are people like everyone else - but now, what self-respecting, well-adjusted gay person would want to hang out with him after the things he has said and done? I sure wouldn't.
All I can say, David, is that I hope you haven't burned all your bridges.
posted by Eshto, at
7/14/2008 3:08 PM
I'm not going to use Wayne's bandwidth to demonstrate the many ways the "marriage equality" movement is selfish and cruel. Today should be a day of burying hatchets, despite the terrible, false things that continue to be said at me at this blog.
Tara-
Don't misunderstand me. I am not interested in continuing to ally myself with most of the man-woman marriage movement in the United States (Maggie Gallagher excepted). That doesn't mean I have bought any of the Orwellian theories by the "marriage equality" movement about how same-sex marriage doesn't change marriage. I am not specifically withdrawing anything I've said in the past about marriage, except my endorsement of the Prop. 8 campaign and my intention to work on marriage issues through the November election.
Chris I.- I must do nothing. It's my life, and I choose what issues I work on, if any. Right now I'm going to focus on my Ph.D. and my next book (about the Holocaust).
posted by David Benkof, at
7/14/2008 4:26 PM
David,
Given the nature of the insulting and derogatory things you have written about gay men, for you to complain about a very mild, somewhat snarky remark and characterize it as ad hominem it hypocritical at least.
Additionally, calling Pam Spalding a 'bitch' completely deprives you of the grounds to complain about any term anyone calls you.
posted by Anonymous, at
7/14/2008 4:27 PM
"I'm not going to use Wayne's bandwidth to demonstrate the many ways the "marriage equality" movement is selfish and cruel. "
There are none. Your unsubstantiated claim intrinsically defames same-sex couples, and is an ad hominem attack.
The attempt to deprive same-sex couples of the civil contract marriage, is selfish and cruel, since it places same-sex couples at a material, and social disadvantage to the advantage of heterosexual couples.
posted by Anonymous, at
7/14/2008 4:29 PM
Anonymous-
Fine, whatever. You guys go on saying whatever you want about me; it only proves my overall point about the nature of the "marriage equality" movement. I'll stop posting here and I'll stop reading what is posted here. Be my guest.
As for Pam Spaulding, I don't appreciate your quoting me out of context. It is irresponsible and makes it appear I believe things I do not believe. You claim I called her a "bitch" which taken without the proper context implies I said something which I do not in fact believe. I would never simply call her a "bitch" without modification, as you can see by my original post. Anyone who wishes to see what I actually said can visit Pam Spaulding's blog.
posted by David Benkof, at
7/14/2008 4:33 PM
David, just where do you get this B.S.?? The "marriage equality" movement as you refer to it is about getting the same rights for gay couples that heterosexual folks enjoy. It's about rights AND responsibilities, not selfish license. Denying these couples equal treatment is absurd. I for one am tired of hearing about some heterosexual couple stumbling into Vegas at 3am, drunk to the gills and getting married, while a same-sex couple together for a decade isn't allowed to solemnize their commitment. Our wanting to right that wrong is not "selfish", my friend.
posted by Chris L., at
7/14/2008 4:50 PM
All this gibberish and nonsense. I have a question for David. what are you feelings of gay people now. Is there any issue that should not be a non issue?
posted by ewe, at
7/14/2008 5:02 PM
Actually, Dave called Pam Spaulding, and I quote, "nasty bitch" and then dared her to ban him ("go ahead ... ban me ... I don't care ...").
The post was there this morning before I left for work. It appears to have been removed due to a violation of the Blend's TOS.
posted by JJ in Chicago, at
7/14/2008 9:02 PM
Please read carefully - I am posting this opinion with no "inside knowledge" - after interacting with D. Benkof on his webblog "Gays defend marriage" someone else submitted in much more eloquent language than myself that, due to the tone of the commentary by DB, perhaps the goal of all this was for David to make a name for himself and get published. I'm not making the accusation, just offering it up as a possibility. Jaroslaw
posted by Anonymous, at
7/15/2008 12:52 PM
Wow, talk about Orwellian! The man wants to deny my partner and me the same civil rights that everyone else has. He wants to deny my child the legal and financial advantages she would get with her parents married. And he wants to call other people "selfish and cruel!"
What, precisely, is the "red flag" that you think David Benkof has raised about the people running Yes campaign for Proposition 8?
You'd need a great deal more that speculation and hints, since you have not given David Benkof much credit for anything else he has written on his blog.
