Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Tuesday, September 16, 2008

(Weekly Column)

Until now, I have always thought there was a place for the Log Cabin Republicans within the GLBT movement. There was a need for a group that could advocate from inside the belly of the beast and do the dirty work that few intellectually honest people wanted to do. The logic behind this organization was that it made more sense to fight for the soul of the Republican Party than run away and support the Democrats -- which members of this organization have traditionally disagreed with on fiscal and national security matters.

However, the rationale for this organization has significantly eroded, as the GOP has shown itself to be corrupt, inept and incapable of good governance. It has become the party of cronyism, debt and diabolical deceit, while securing its power by enthusiastically pandering to its anti-gay base.

With the stock market plummeting, the real estate bubble bursting, the deficit exploding and gas prices breaking new records -- largely thanks to Republican deregulation of markets and failure to explore alternative energy sources - the myth of Republican economic responsibility has been fatally punctured.

Log Cabin Republicans also justify their party choice on grounds of national security. But, in eight years of mostly Republican rule, America has grown weaker. Our military is stretched thin, we are still bogged down in the bloody money pit of Iraq, Russia is resurgent, and Osama remains free in the same lawless Pakistani border where Al-Qaeda is plotting. Indeed, the 9-11 attacks took place with Republicans in power, including a president who failed to take seriously reports that an attack on America was imminent.

Based on this abominable record, gay Republicans can no longer say that their party's performance on other matters overrides its unyielding opposition to GLBT equality. Between the sullying of America's reputation abroad and the divisiveness on social issues at home, there is no reason that securing GLBT rights should not be the primary focus of Log Cabin Republicans. The choice they present between our equality and the safety and prosperity of this nation has proven itself false.

The final logic for Log Cabin was that it could create "Big Tent" Republicanism by nurturing friendly Republicans who could transform the party. Unfortunately, this election cycle shows that instead of changing the GOP, it is the "supportive" politicians who reinvent themselves to appeal to social conservatives.

Instead of standing on principle, ambitious Log Cabin favorites -- such as Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani -- made crass conversions and bowed to anti-gay zealots that an earlier incarnation of John McCain called "agents of intolerance." We even had a sophisticated actor, Fred Thompson, who surely must socialize with gay people in Hollywood, act like he just fell off a turnip truck in overalls.

The truth is, Republican politicians who are pro-gay have no future in the GOP. If they did, former Massachusetts Gov. William Weld would have been a rising star. The most famous moderate -- Arnold Schwarzenegger -- has his presidential ambitions chastened by the U.S. Constitution, thus allowing him a degree of autonomy. However, those who want to be president will pander to the preachers.

The Log Cabin experiment to remake the GOP has faltered and they should consider closing shop. At times, it has been a noble project, particularly under the principled leadership of Patrick Guerriero, who refused to endorse Bush in 2004 after the president pushed for the Federal Marriage Amendment.

It is obvious, however, that this organization has outlived its usefulness and has been soundly defeated by much larger, wealthier and influential anti-gay forces. The party is now rotten to the core and thrives on homophobic bigotry, anti-immigrant sentiment, small-minded populism and foolishly mocking our foreign allies at the expense of our long-term national security (remember freedom fries?).

Exactly where does a gay Republican fit into this intolerant scenario?

Log Cabin's tragic endorsement of John McCain exhibits an obdurate denial of his anti-gay record and a stubborn unwillingness to admit that their one-time hero is now hopeless. McCain's VP choice, Sarah Palin, a favorite of the fundamentalist fringe, should have lead to a reevaluation, if not reversal of their endorsement. Like Palin, they didn't blink, and are shamefully in cahoots with destructive forces that would deny GLBT people the most basic rights.

The only chance for gay Republicans to be legitimate players in the GOP is to have the party suffer a string of crushing losses. The defeats have to be so painful and substantial, that they lead to realignment, where the role of social conservatives is significantly diminished. Clearly, the Log Cabin Republicans can only save their party by helping to defeat it.

Both parties agree that this is the election of "change." Log Cabin can take the lead by changing its endorsement of McCain before they further harm the gay and lesbian community. Their suicidal tendency to help a party that despises them is the pink elephant in the room that needs to be discussed. If they can't reform the GOP -- and there is no evidence that they can -- it may be time to disband.

130 Comments:

How can someone be a republican politician and profess to have GLBT interests at heart? I just don't get it.
posted by Kelli Busey, at 9/16/2008 10:10 PM

I don't know how any gays can be fully Republican or Democrat (the party of African-American homophobes). The only way to go is Independent.
posted by Joey7777, at 9/16/2008 11:01 PM

I never realized when I came out that one day the entire community would be telling me that in order to be a member, I would have to spit in the face of my military father & my minister's-daughter mother and all they taught me, then dutifully follow my marching orders and regurgitate my talking points as handed down from HRC. How sad. The gay community is creating a whole new closet to put some of its members back into, and this article is living proof of it. I helped found a gay youth space, a gay charity sports team, and was part of the VAXGEN study, yet my contributions don't count because of my beliefs according to all of you HRC types, and I get likened to a Jewish Nazi or a Black KKK member, just because I won't hide in that new closet of yours. Ironically, I've felt more love and acceptance from many Republicans who knew I was gay than I have from many gays who knew I was Republican. Well, one day we will get our rights, and HRC will have a big party and give big flowery Obama-like speeches about how they won the day with all their lobbying and constant vigilance, while totally ignoring all the little contributions from everyone (on both sides of the aisle) out there in the trenches changing negative opinions of homosexuals one person at a time. As for me (and others like me), I just want our rights, and I don't really care who gets the credit, and that's a good thing, because if there's one thing I know about you HRC types, it's that I won't be invited to that party anyways.
posted by Noah, at 9/17/2008 12:29 AM

One question. Are there any people of color or women who are Log Cabin Republicans?
posted by ewe, at 9/17/2008 12:38 AM

Sorry to have to say this but Log Cabin Rethugs are part of the problem not the solution. No matterwhat they can not budge off of their loft to come on down and fight for all that's good in the Democrat Party against all that's wrong with the GOP and that's staring with their allience with the Religious Right for the last eight especially and now with Palin and McCain it will be even worse. Log Cabin may disbad BUT the mentality of the GOP will remain a part of them..
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 2:20 AM

It is tragic that Log Cabiners can't see that they are not loved, wanted, or needed in the Republican Party.

No one is telling you to go into another closet, Noah, but a gay person supporting someone like McClain IS akin to a Jew supportive of Naziism or a black supporting the KKK.

I believe that LCRs ARE suicidal. Look at the crap the Rethuglicans are running for President and Vice President! Any GLBT person who dreams even for a moment that McCain and Palin are going to do anything but come up with ways to make our lives harder is delusional. The The Repuglicans, along with their fundie cheerleaders want to take this country back to a time when there was white, straight, male priviledge.

Sure, individual Republicans might be supportive and accepting--stranger things have happened. But the Party as a whole does not want anything to do with LGBT aspirations. They want us back in a big dark closet with a lock on the door.

I was amazed when here, in Bible-banger southwest Indiana, I ran into Republicans who voted that way their entire lives who have gone to the Democrats because, as several told me, they didn't sign up for this neocon crap when they started voting.

I agree with Joey7777 who says that the way to go is independent. Obama is out there, kissing fundie butt with the best of them. He doesn't give a damn about LGBT people--witness his crap about marriage being for one man and one women. We wouldn't have had much chance with Hilary as President, but it would be a bigger chance than with McCain or Obama.

The face is, the Democrats ARE getting to be the party of African-Americans homophobes. That's not to say that all African Americans are homophobic--far from it. But the Democrats clearly are pandering to those who are.

But back to the Republicans. I have never "gotten" the whole point of gay Republicans, except possibly woting one's wallet. LCRs come off like a bunch of deeply closeted, self-hating LOGBT people.
Would you like to enlighten us, Noah?
posted by Lights, at 9/17/2008 5:45 AM

Wayne, well said. I'd reached your conclusion two years ago, they should and must disband. The LC talks about inclusion, yet....when were we mentioned during their convention in Denver? Did they speak of our rights let alone acknowledge us? NO! Enough said.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 9/17/2008 7:29 AM

Ugly is as ugly does--
http://tinyurl.com/5zy7uk
www.okstonewall.org
posted by james.nimmo@gmail.com, at 9/17/2008 8:32 AM

"I've felt more love and acceptance from many Republicans"

You mean the people voting to kick you out of the military, ban your marriage, deride 'activist' judges who made it legal for you to have sex and oppose letting the FBI have the resources to investigate hate crimes have shown you love and acceptance? I never would have guessed they were so tolerant. I guess you learn something new every day.
posted by Wayne Besen, at 9/17/2008 8:43 AM

Aside from everything else, the LCRs have got to be the least powerful political organization in history. They have difficulty getting POLITICIANS to accept their MONEY. Let that sink in for a minute. How loudly do you have to be told that you're not wanted or welcome before you stop wasting your time?
posted by John, at 9/17/2008 8:49 AM

Noah, no one is saying you have to 'spit' in your parents' faces. But you can take the good that they taught you and leave behind retrogressive attitudes of yesteryear. I dont know how old you are, but when I was growing up (and I had great parents too--a military father and religious mother) I heard every perjorative term you can imagine for every race, religion, and ethnicity, except our own of course. And although homosexuality was NEVER talked about back then, on the rare occasions that you did hear a word, it was always queer, faggot or perverts etc. As time goes by and society progresses, granted, at a glacial pace, you take the good from the past and reject the ignorance and hate. That's what most people in my generation did. I'm sure many republicans are very nice, I even know a few too, but the party as an entity is anything but, especially to those they consider to be inferior, whether it's racial, ethnic, sexual, or socioeconomic. Our parents and society in general are like a buffet, you can select the good stuff that they have to offer and reject the spoiled, outdated junk.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 10:02 AM

In my experience (and I was on their e-mail list for a while), the LCR are just as ignorant and intolerant as any other Republican, they just stand up for gay rights because it happens to be the thing that affects them personally. They don't give a rip about any other social justice issue.

And this Noah fellow is typical, he acts like anyone who isn't conservative is automatically anti-military and anti-Christian. And for that matter, that current Republicans actually represent conservative values! Because nothing says "small government" like spending billions on an illegal war abroad, and telling Americans at home who they can fall in love with or what religion is the "right" one.

Ask McCain how he's voted on efforts to support the troops, like health benefits, if you think he's so pro-military.

Same old stupid Republican propaganda. Actually I find Noah's words incredibly insulting to all the soldiers who aren't conservative and/or Christian.

His volunteer efforts probably did some good in his local community and they shouldn't go unappreciated. But they have little or nothing to do with the Republican party.

And if we're talking about legal rights like marriage equality, then sorry pal but a gay baseball team can't grant legal rights. If you support a political party that makes fighting against gay rights one of their central tenets, then you get what you pay for.
posted by Eshto, at 9/17/2008 12:03 PM

Noah; I'm not sure what points the HRC has that would require you to spit in your parents faces. Does your father oppose gay people in the military? His son? does your mother think that all gay people go to hell, and should be denied an end to prejudice and equality before the law? Her son? does telling them "No, this is wrong" and "Support your gay son" mean that you are spitting in their faces?

I can respect the LCR for trying to change the republican party--as unlikely as that seems. what I don't respect is their endorsements and money going to people who are republicans who think that gay people should be beat up on as a matter of national policy.

The best they can come up with for McSame is that he opposes the FMA-- while thinking that state marriage amendments are appropriate, while not thinking that gay people need any protection or recognition for their families and partners unless the state happens to want to maybe grant some limited recognition.

I have a lot of problems with HRC myself. It is why I no longer give them money. I think they are as corrupt as the rest of our political system. But their most important message is the one I endorse-- this prejudice and discrimination should stop being a policy of the government
posted by Ben in Oakland, at 9/17/2008 12:43 PM

I think, despite the fact that I don't agree with them, that we need LCR. While I am a democrat, I don't favor complete and utter control of government by Democrats because power is corrupting. So for democracy to work, and effective opposition must exist. From within the rubbles of the current theocratic Republican party, a new movement might be born, and I would rather there be advocates from within who guide them towards tolerance. I would like to remind everyone how not too long ago, only Republicans protected Blacks from annihilation, while the democrats in the south marched in the KKK by day and in our party by day. Look what a difference the interceding decades have meant.
The point is to watch for signs of our party crazies too, and to recognize that the best interests of the GLBT is served when both parties recognize equal rights.

At our convention, 90% of delegates favored civil unions or marriage for same sex couples. At the Republican Convention it was 44%. That's a huge telling gap - but it's not irredeemable. Obviously, the democratic electorate at large is not as open as our delegates, and the Republican electorate is no where close to their delegation - but to make significant progress we need allies on both sides.
posted by Alice AN, at 9/17/2008 1:36 PM

Alice, hell will freeze over before any GOP politician will come out in favor of our equality. The Log Cabin will wait an eternity for any signficant change, if at all. It is delusional to think that they will ever change their party from within. Name one piece of legislation favoring gay rights and equality the GOP has ever backed? Shouldn't that be the writing on the wall for the LC? Why doesn't Obama ask McCain his position on gay rights during the debate?
posted by Robert, NYC., at 9/17/2008 1:57 PM

Noah, I am sorry to anounce this to you, but alas, the New England Rockefeller are extinct. They no longer exist. So you have chosen to align yourself with a party that is anti gay to the core. Even McCain said he would consider an ammendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage under certain cercumstances. You are free to be a member of any party you want, but you must face the hypocracy of your choices. As Ayn Rand once said in deference to the bible, "judge and prepair to be judged". You are free to join the Constitution party if you choose. They are even more crudely anti gay then the Republicans. But don't expect a kiss on the cheek from you gay brothers and sisters.

In fact you have just been demoted to step brother. You are dead to me.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 2:12 PM

correction

Noah, I am sorry to announce this to you, but alas, the New England Rockefeller republicans are extinct. They no longer exist. You have chosen to align yourself with a party that is anti gay to the core. Even McCain said he would consider an ammendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage under certain cercumstances. You are free to be a member of any party you want, but you must face the hypocracy of your choices. As Ayn Rand once said in deference to the bible, "judge and prepair to be judged". You are free to join the Constitution party if you choose. They are even more crudely anti gay then the Republicans. But don't expect a kiss on the cheek from you gay brothers and sisters.

In fact you have just been demoted to step brother. You are dead to me.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 2:14 PM

By the way Noah. I was in the Air Force. And your military service???
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 2:15 PM

By the way Noah. I am gay and was in the Air Force. I was honorably discharged. And your military service???
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 2:16 PM

Poor sad Noah.

You know, Noah, my parents were wrong on many things (especially the environment), but at least I understand reality.

Noah, you failed to give one single argument in support of your 'republicanism'. Maybe it is because you don't have any?
posted by TonyJazzz, at 9/17/2008 5:14 PM

As my friend Andy Humm says, "Why don't they just call themselves 'Homosexuals For Lower Taxes'?" since they obviously don't give a damn about LGBT equality.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 7:07 PM

Yeah, but Andy Humm also called the Duke lacrosse guys "rapists."
posted by Joey7777, at 9/17/2008 7:41 PM

It is hard to believe that many LCR are better of economically under the bush republicans. They might want to discuss this with their accountants. There is more to fiscial health then ones tax rate. Little things like inflation and out of control goverment spending which is what the repubs are about. Do they really believe as McCain does that the fundmentals of the economy are strong?
posted by Anonymous, at 9/17/2008 9:03 PM

I am gay and a republican. I vote republican because of their stance on national security (yes, there are gays who support the war on terrorism (including Iraq), personal freedom vs. governmental regualtion, and most importantly the pro-life issue. Pro-life is the most important issue for me. It goes above and beyond any infringement of my rights. Homophobia is so prevalent in our society that when the gay gene is finally discovered (and I believe it will be) then women will begin aborting babies who have it thus putting our very existence in jeopardy. So, unitl the democrats become pro-life I will continue to vote republican, thank you very much.
posted by James Hogue, at 9/18/2008 3:44 AM

James Hogue, get thee to a christian revival tent and repent of your vile gay lifestyle. LOL

If you think 4 celled fetilized eggs are human beings, then you are a Christianist. So you really need to go all the way with this. You need to repent and join the extra chromosone republican party. In fact take it to the limit and join the Constitution party. Their hatred of gays combined with your own self hatred should keep you in a constate of bliss.

As for national security, you need to be remined this Prez was asleep behind the wheel when we were attacked. It has his responsibiliy to protect the U.S. and he failed. Further, our presence in muslem soil is the greatest threat to national security.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 12:33 PM

Anonymous at 9/18/2008 12:33 PM, expand your horizons my friend. You're just a dogmatic, narrow-minded, and myopic as those we do battle with on other fronts:

http://www.plagal.org/

http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

http://www.l4l.org/
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 3:29 PM

One Log Cabin friend of mine is a Republican because he sleeps with his boss a local big-wig in the party. Actually I would call him a Log Cabin Whore.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 6:53 PM

Yes Noah. When you are out and gay you can only belong to one political party, you are only allowed to pray to God if you only pray for gays, and you can only say nice things about other gay people - even when you disagree with them.

The conservative christians do the same thing.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 9:14 PM

Oh yeah and if your gay you are supposed to drop all your beliefs about when YOU think life begins. If you are not aware of all these little obscure things - you can get a gay mentor to show you the ropes so you will know how to think.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 9:15 PM

http://www.plagal.org/

http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

http://www.l4l.org/

there are so few individules interested in these "organizations" that they have to subpoena people to join. There web sites look like they were designed by a five year old with special needs.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/18/2008 10:49 PM

James Hogue: "I vote republican because of their stance on national security (yes, there are gays who support the war on terrorism (including Iraq), personal freedom vs. governmental regualtion, and most importantly the pro-life issue."

The Republicans allowed 9/11 to happen and then destroyed a country that was no threat to us, using lies to get us to do it.

The Republicans want to strip you of every right you have as a gay man.

Finally, you're a gay man. Pro-life? Are you kidding? As a human being, you get an opinion on abortion but as a gay man your opinion on abortion means NOTHING.

"Pro-life is the most important issue for me. It goes above and beyond any infringement of my rights."

Because why care about life that actually exists or about the one that you're actually living?

"Homophobia is so prevalent in our society that when the gay gene is finally discovered (and I believe it will be) then women will begin aborting babies who have it thus putting our very existence in jeopardy. So, unitl the democrats become pro-life I will continue to vote republican, thank you very much."

You're rationalizing self-destructive political affiliations based on science fiction??? Well, whatever works, I guess. OR you could just be sane and do what you know is the right thing now.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/19/2008 2:15 PM

If hatred of gay people is so great, and if large numbers of women are going to abort their babies because the babies have the gay gene (which does not seem to exist), then I have to say that heterosexuals are even LESS fit to be parents than I previously thought.

It seems to me your time would be easier and better spent if you tried to eliminate homophobia, which affects you and all future gay people directly and demonstrably, rather than eliminating a woman's right to choose, which has nothing to do with you or anyone else. If you are so concerned about life, what about the huge loss of life in the republican wars.
posted by ben in oakland, at 9/19/2008 3:20 PM

The "prolife" issue is a republican ruse. They use the abortion issue to try to prove that they are moral since their stand on almost all other issues regarding life in the acutal, rather then life in the abstract, is abysmal. They back tax cuts for the rich rather then the middle class. They are against health care for their fellow citizens. They back the death penalty and couldn't be more thrilled about war. It is all a smoke screen.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/19/2008 3:58 PM

pro life is not a republican ruse. republicans have confused religion with politics - big problem - even in jesus' time. the ruse is that republicans have spun the religion of people into a political machine and many, many are being led by the nose right into moral corruption and calling it - by the same old name - for love of god and country. i truly fell sorry for those who think they are voting for morality. it does not exist in this election.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/20/2008 2:17 AM

Ben, right on! Republicans/neocons are hypocrites. They are all so prolife, yet they have no problem using the death penalty and ignoring one of the commandments "thou shall not kill" and supporting the killing, maming of innocent men, women and children in their dirty wars. They are NEVER consistent but like the christo fascists, radical islamists and orthodox jews, selectively cherry pick passages from the bible, koran and torah to justify discrimination and denial of our full civil rights, while ignoring everything else that doesn't put them in a good light. None of them live by the scriptures they claim to believe in. Its all hypocrisy and the doublestandard and neocons have the monopoly on it more than any others. As I've said before, the GOP is a party of HATE, period.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 9/20/2008 8:24 AM

There is a saying that it takes Nixon to go to China. This means that if an unpopular policy is to be pursued, it has to be a president of the party which by and large opposes that policy to successfully push it through. Whereas a dovish Democrat considered to be soft on socialism couldn't go to China without generating a storm of criticism from hawkish Republicans, Nixon wasn't likely to come in for nearly as much criticism from his usual opponents who favor the policy or from his usual allies who are loathe to criticize the leader of their team.

It is often surprising to those who believe Democrats are anti-war to learn that most of America's wars were launched by Democratic Party presidents. Despite getting elected on a promise to keep America out of the Great War, Woodrow Wilson got us into it. Democratic icon FDR did everything he could to get America into World War II; there is substantial evidence that the attack on Pearl Harbor was permitted to take place due to his hitherto unsuccessful efforts to drag unwilling Americans into war with the Axis. It was Harry Truman who presided over the Korean War, John Kennedy who first sent American troops to Vietnam and LBJ who carried this policy on, and even Bill Clinton invaded Somalia and bombed Serbia. Although in characteristic Clintonian fashion, he couldn't commit to proper military engagements any more than he could manage full sexual relations with his notorious intern.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/21/2008 12:09 AM

Hey Dumb Ass above!

FDR did everything he could to keep us out of the European War as it was known. Please re-read your history and the pleas and letters from Churchill to FDR.

And a little know tidbit - the Democratic Party as it looks today was what the Republican Party looked like 50 years ago. The two party system has morphed over time and people are really too dumb to recognize it.

I wonder what are the average age and educational level of the readers on this blog?

Makes a person wonder.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/21/2008 8:29 PM

Anon on 9/19 at 2:15

No - Bush and his group destroyed our economy, our international acceptance. They did it, they lied.

Let's not group all Republicans into this. And let's not forget that Clinton a Dem voted to give the president absolute power to enter into war.

Get your facts straight.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/21/2008 8:34 PM

When Roosevelt stood for re-election in 1940, he promised American mothers on a stack of Bibles that he was never going to send American boys to fight "in any foreign wars"! Unless...unless...unless...we were attacked.

NOw, if not to provoke an attack on us and the Brits, then WHY did Roosevelt slap an oil embargo on Japan, a country that had no oil of its own and literally couldn't survive long - maybe six months - without it? And WHY did he do it WHEN he did it?

Roosevelt slapped the embargo on when he did because Hitler had invaded the Soviet Union only a few weeks before, on June 22, 1941, and it already looked like the Wehrmacht would be in Moscow in a matter of weeks. Roosevelt and Churchill were frantic. Unless they did something - and did it quickly - the Soviet Union would soon go the way of Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, etc.

Back to Japan in the summer of 1941. Japan - although allied with Germany, Italy and other European Axis Powers - had little interest in their European war. Nor had Japan committed in the Pacific any war-like acts against the British Empire. Japan had been engaged in an all-out war on the Asian mainland since 1933, the year Roosevelt became U.S. president and Hitler came to power in Germany. By the fall of 1941, Japan's armies occupied a huge hunk of Asia, including Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam and almost a third of China. But the Japanese were then - as they are today - resource poor. In particular, they were completely dependent on oil (and rubber) from Indonesia and Borneo and other possessions of the European colonial powers in the southwest Pacific and Indian oceans.

Between Japan and all that oil and rubber they desperately need, are the Philippine Islands. And just to the west of them lies the Brit stronghold of Singapore on the Malay Peninsula. With the British Pacific Fleet operating out of Singapore and the U.S. Pacific Fleet operating out of Subic Bay, there was no way the Japanese were going to get any oil and rubber past those fleets without a fight. So, what to do?

On November 7, 1941, Admiral Yamamoto issued Combined Fleet Order No. 1. The 1st Fleet - which included all the Japanese aircraft carriers - was to attack Pearl Harbor. The 2nd Fleet was to attack all Dutch, British and U.S. aircraft, air fields, warships and naval installations in the Dutch East Indies, on the Malay Peninsula and in the Philippines. The 2nd Fleet was also to support the invasion that day of Malaya and the Philippines by units of the Japanese army.

On December 8, 1941, after months of fruitless negotiations with the United States about lifting the oil embargo, the Japanese attacked every U.S. and British aircraft and warship they could find between Japan and all that oil and rubber. So the Japanese attack was more or less provoked to get America into WWII.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 11:35 AM

Because Japan had signed an agreement with Germany. And although we were not in a war, to support Japan - was in a sense supporting Germany. That would have defeated the efforts to support Britain whilst they were in a war with Germany.

You can't throw money out both windows.

Or did you overlook that little contract between Japan and Germany?

Granted - we entered the war. But Japan did not have to attack us for oil. There were lots of other options available to Japan. Sort of akin to them holding a gun to our heads and shooting it off. No country or person that I know of is going to take a direct hit to their main operations and not fight back.

Your dumb assness just increases with every thing you write.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 3:39 PM

Your facts are scant. In fact, your insults outnumber your facts. Typical style of argumentation of those who don't have the facts but want a certain conclusion.

What were these "other options" available to Japan when they were about six months away from having to give up all of the gains they had made in the previous 8 years?

The fact that the Japanese attack on U.S. territory and interests was provoked illuminates a couple of other things about World War II. Shortly after the attack, General Marshall - the U.S. Army Chief of Staff in 1941 - called Dwight Eisenhower to the Pentagon and charged him with war planning. Eisenhower, who had spent years as aide-de-camp to General MacArthur - the commanding general in the Philippines in the late 1930s and early 1940s - naturally assumed that he was to plan a counterattack in the Pacific against the Japanese, who had attacked us. No, said General Marshall. Our first priority is to defeat Hitler.

Four days after the Japanese attack - which apparently came as a complete surprise to him - Hitler declared war on the United States! Absolutely incredible that Hitler would have done such a thing! If Hitler had not done that, Roosevelt might never have been able to persuade Congress to declare war on Germany.

Now, the Japanese didn't conquer Asia because - even though they went down south and capture themselves a supply of oil and rubber to run their war machine in Asia - the U.S. Navy, by regaining control of the sea lanes, kept them from transporting the oil they had captured back to Japan due to Roosevelt's embargo. Roosevelt knew that Japan would eventually attack - although the attack was probably bigger than Roosevelt expected - and then he could get America into the war.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 4:16 PM

Last poster is AJ/Theo/Ethan/kathy
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 4:33 PM

NOT TO SHIFT THE FOCUS:

BUT John McCain and his campaign are about to be getting all sorts of gay press.

Blogger Mike Rogers appeared on Michelangelo Signorile's radio show today to reveal that Mark Buse, Senator McCain's chief-of-staff, goes for the guys.

QUERTY.COM

Let's see the spin on this. . .

Ciao
posted by rusty, at 9/22/2008 6:52 PM

Just because I call you a dumb ass doesn't mean that you are not.

Re-read your history. You are tainting people for you own pleasure.

Japan and Germany had a pact.

Scant - maybe - but do I have to write the book for you to do a LITTLE research? Nah.

Stop blaming others and do your work. Your insult of me means nothing - obviously you don't like to be called a dumb ass.

Then maybe you ought to do something to change that.
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 7:59 PM

So - what does Buse think of McCain?? Or is this just a rung on his career ladder?
posted by Anonymous, at 9/22/2008 8:06 PM

Wrong on all counts - I am not the, kathy, aj or someother ethan person. geez - protecting the integrity of history means your not gay??? wow - that's absurd. or being republican means you're not gay? or picking on dems - means you're not gay? starting to get a little narrow minded in this hallway. remember when being gay meant diverse, tolerant, thinking for yourself etc... and looking for the truth?

lol - the level of education in this group seems to go down every week
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posted by sex, at 2/20/2009 2:18 AM

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posted by emba, at 2/20/2009 2:56 AM

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posted by 花蓮黃頁網路電話簿, at 2/22/2009 12:17 PM

when you believe it's true when u believe it's a big world blue sky in that day nobody at here if you would like tomorrow is a fine day beauty life miss you shine future it's sun day i am not a big girl in my life the feeling of love shine day good feeling beautiful world enjoy delicious food love is a feeling Talk to me softly There's something in Ur eyes Don't hang Ur head in sorrow please don't cry I know how U feel inside I've been there before Somethings changing inside U And don't U know Don't U cry tonight I still love U baby There's a heaven above U baby Give me a whisper And give me a sigh Give me a kiss before U tell me goodbye Don't U take it so hard now please don't take it so bad I'll still be thinkin' of U And the times we had-baby And please remember That I never lied if you want to make believe there's nothing up my sleeve i'm a man as man can be as you can plainly see don't want to see no tears eliminate your fears i'm someone you can't fight i'm plain in size you can't believe your eyes i'm too much to hold
posted by terminals-blocks, at 2/23/2009 10:41 PM

商標或專利或存證信函歡迎討論。當舖也提供借錢和融資。
關鍵字:商標。商標。專利。專利。
posted by 商標打人, at 2/24/2009 4:56 AM

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posted by emba, at 2/24/2009 9:48 PM

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獅王紋身工作室提供專業的無痛刺青技術，獅王紋身在世界TATTOO大賽中，獲獎無數，獅王紋身給您最時尚的作品。

陳駿逸皮膚科診所提供了治療痘痘的服務，皮膚雷射權威，包括雷射、脈衝光、除斑等，讓您回復青春蘋果臉。

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杏儒中醫診所提供了糖尿病的治療。

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posted by kevio, at 2/25/2009 1:02 AM

專利或商標或存證信函或當舖問題都歡迎討論。專利或商標或存證信函都很重要。
關鍵字:專利,專利,專利,專利,商標,商標,存證信函。
posted by 商標打人, at 2/27/2009 3:13 AM

當舖
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posted by 商標打人, at 2/28/2009 11:05 PM

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posted by ., at 3/01/2009 3:19 PM

合宿　免許
 不動産
 クレジットカード　現金化
 幼児教室
 名刺
posted by note1, at 3/02/2009 3:32 AM

當舖
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posted by 商標打人, at 3/02/2009 8:33 AM

サイト制作
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 soul source production
ベトナムシーフード
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posted by Hoàng, at 3/03/2009 8:53 AM

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posted by terminals-blocks, at 3/06/2009 2:59 AM

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 禮服
我們提供婚紗攝影
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我們提供婚紗攝影
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 結婚錄影
 台北婚紗攝影
 高雄婚紗攝影
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 禮車
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我們提供婚紗攝影
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 結婚錄影
 台北婚紗攝影
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 禮車
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posted by yuho, at 3/11/2009 2:13 AM

威創牙醫診所除了提供優質的植牙技術外還提供假牙|矯正|牙周病治療，是值得您信賴的牙醫診所、植牙權威。

獅王紋身工作室提供專業的無痛刺青技術，獅王紋身在世界TATTOO大賽中，獲獎無數，獅王紋身給您最時尚的作品。

陳駿逸皮膚科診所提供了治療痘痘的服務，皮膚雷射權威，包括雷射、脈衝光、除斑等，讓您回復青春蘋果臉。

ck皮件處理棧提供專業洗包包|洗鞋子|各式皮件修理保養疑難雜症都有服務，清洗包包專門店讓您的包包、鞋子、永遠保持最新的況態唷。

杏儒中醫診所提供了糖尿病的治療。

seo大師e王國幫您的網站輕鬆在您的行業裡站上第一頁，e王國的關鍵字行銷是您的好幫手，包括關鍵字、自然排序、都能讓您獲得完美的效果，以目前的網路行銷不外乎是關鍵字、自然排序為主、而關鍵字行銷、seo又是e王國的強項也包括關鍵字廣告的服務，讓e王國幫您征服網海。

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posted by kevio的實驗室-嗨, at 3/11/2009 7:31 AM

شات-
منتدى-
يوتيوب-
شات صوتي-
قصص-
العاب:
صور:
دليل مواقع-
دردشة كتابية-
مركز تحميل:
دليل مواقع-
شات سعودي-
شات الشله-
الود-
صور-
افلام-
سيدتي-
توبيكات:
posted by شات, at 3/13/2009 10:26 PM

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posted by 商標打人, at 3/18/2009 10:31 AM

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posted by 情趣達人, at 3/21/2009 6:14 AM

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