Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Friday, October 03, 2008

Today I am in San Diego. To my surprise, a group of anti-gay zealots yelling "save the children" picketed in front of my hotel in favor of Proposition 8, which would ban gay marriage. I was appalled, so I made a make-shift sign and confronted them. Outnumbered 10 to 1, I yelled my lungs out: "Bigots Go Home" "No On 8" "You're Not God's Spokespeople" "Stop Discrimination."

I quickly remembered that screaming hurts your throat! It was a bout of unexpected activism, but I must admit I enjoyed my very small role in stumping in favor of equal marriage rights in California.

84 Comments:

The Prop 8 nuts are out in force in San Diego. Last weekend, my beau and I saw them while driving by Fashion Valley mall. They appeared to be wearing a type of tunic/cape that could be religious in nature. If the light had turned red, we were going to smooch, but I merely had time to make a very angry face--and another donation to Equality CA. -Josh
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 7:32 PM

Why can't we vote on giving San Diego back to Spain? Unlike Prop. 8, it would actually improve the lives of Californians. :)
posted by David, at 10/03/2008 7:39 PM

Wayne,
I give you huge credit, your very brave and have very good intensions.
posted by Ken, at 10/03/2008 8:57 PM

why were they protesting in front of your hotel? Did you send them a press release? :)
posted by ben in oakland, at 10/03/2008 9:39 PM

This is a bit off the subject but has anyone seen Dancing with the Stars? Lance Bass dancing with a female and eventhough it was probably part of the act- he kissed the female partner,it's probaly being blown all out of porportion by the religous right claiming that he's a potental Ex-Gay or he's thinking about it which would be nonsence.
I'm sure Sara Palin would comment on it with her backwards view of homosexuality being a choice.
posted by Ken, at 10/03/2008 11:08 PM

Californians will let gay marriage stand. Those are just a few of the people that protest - not the real thing. Don't worry, or waste your breath yelling back. San Diego is gay friendly. Maybe those were the hicks from the back coutnry who drove their old town &country stationwagons into the city?? More than likely.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 11:16 PM

David,

This is typical thinking of people who clump all people of one group (instead of the subset that they really are in) and make the larger population to be the same character.

Ie: all gays are immoral, all conservative christians are hateful, and San Diego should go back to "Spain" because of a few people??

Not right thinking. San Diego has a gay community that is active, conscientous, and supportive of its industries such as - tourism,
military, recreation etc

If you think you are being smart by making such a comment about partioning off one the best cities in the nation and giving it back to "Spain", you are not.

First of all it wast the Treaty of Guadalupe w/ Mexico that the United States acquired California (also know to the natives as Alta California- and Baja California would belong to Mexico. Or if you are going to be specific in english terms - Upper California goes to the US and Lower California went to Mexico.)

Secondly, you make people like myself who value civil rights and freedom (supposedly as you do ) out to be dumb asses.

Do you want to give the vibrant gay community of San Diego to Mexico? Or - in your world (since you don't read much) back to "Spain"?
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 1:16 AM

David, even if San Diego had been settled by the Spanish which it wasn't....we'd still be a lot better off since Spain legalized gay marriage and there was no hateful opposition in the form of an amendment to overturn it. The Spanish are light years ahead of us as are several other countries of course such as Belgium, Canada,Holland (the first), Norway, South Africa, and to a large extent, the UK. Sweden and Denmark will surely follow suit, maybe Finland too. It will only reinforce our number one position as the laughing stock of the world.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/04/2008 6:14 AM

Even though they incite anger and it's extremely tempting to scream back at them, it's not going to change hearts and minds and turns one into nothing but a screaming head. It becomes "my" screaming vs. "their" screaming and when everybody is just screaming and calling the other "bigots" or "deviants," the truth gets obscured and everyone just sees a couple of screaming heads with opposing views. Protests are at their best when they are thought out and organized. This is why I love "Anything But Straight," because it logically and methodically captures virtually every angle, leaving no room for the screaming bigot to make a point without looking like an ignorant fool.
posted by Emily K, at 10/04/2008 8:14 AM

Emily:

I don't agree with you on this one and think you are on shaky historical ground. First, I know for a fact that I moved three people closer to voting for our side. I got their attention, which lead to a conversation, which made them think about it and consider voting "no." So, it was important to be there.

Second, are you suggesting that the civil rights movement was just a bunch of people screaming? The protests over Vietnam? The fight to unionize? The "screaming" over the Iraq war certainly influenced public opinion against the war - where it remains.

The "screaming" of ACT-UP got new AIDS drugs and lead to reforms in the drug industry. So, I think history clearly speaks for itself.

Can you show similar legislative accomplishments that did not involve at least an element of direct action?

The fact is, when you have one group protesting without a counterweight, it creates the impression of momentum for the other side. It sways people emotionally. It stirs passions.

One of the great failures of our movement is that we think dispassionate reason alone will win the day. It won't, and it is one reason we have not achieved equality.

By no longer getting into the streets, we have surrendered our hopes and dreams to a few insiders who have little leverage after the double talk of politicians leaves them empty handed.

To win, it takes lobbying in Congress, running ad campaigns, Internet activism, writing blogs AND getting out into the streets. It involves a variety of tactics - with direct action a central part of that strategy.

So called "screaming" galvanizes people, helps organize and grow a cause, as well as plays a key role in empowering people. It also energizes the choir - which is vastly underrated by our side.

If people don't feel they are part of something larger than than themselves, where they can connect with other people (and writing on the Internet is no substitute for live interaction) then you often lose their important voice, brainpower and energy.

It is time to mix old time activism with the modern tools of communication. One without the other won't get us very far and leaves us incomplete.
posted by Wayne Besen, at 10/04/2008 11:36 AM

Yes these types must be confronted. There must be the presence of an opposing voice, and if that voice is logical like Wayne's, we are accomplishing much. Just seeing that there is "another side to this" is enough to get people thinking, namely the fence-sitters who are generally traditional, yet generally fair-minded people who don't like the idea of a crowd of intolerant people attempting to legislate against the private lives of others who they truly know nothing about.

Maybe this is gratuitous of me, but anyone who has embraced the dark side of trying to delay social progress by fostering inequality should truly take a hour or two of total silence, look into themselves and ponder precisely what it is that they are doing with the time they have been given on Earth. Perhaps the religious people who visit this board (and are most welcomed to do so) might want to consider that battling loving families is actually doing the Devil's work. Thank goodness Wayne was there to say "NO!" to this evil. Someone must stand and represent justice.
posted by Chris L., at 10/04/2008 12:09 PM

Besides, after 8 years of bush and basically 14 years of a republican controlled congress (they've filibustered just about every piece of legislation that the Dems have put forth since 06)--- it just feels DAMN GOOD to able to scream at someone!! We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 3:53 PM

Wayne, you're not going to win me over on this one. Being a screaming head - a LITERAL screaming head, red in the face, veins popping out, desperately hollering a "no" to someone's "yes" - never looks good to any side. If I were an alien landing on earth and I see a group of people screaming "yes yes yes" on one side of a street and another screaming back, "no no no" on the other, what would I be thinking? Probably, "why is everybody screaming?"

I support TWO and love/own your book - I'm hardly dismissing your life's work. Your NARTH protests and LWO protests are great, because they are groups of people offering a positive message, not just a screaming point that says "they're wrong because they say 'yes' and they should be saying 'no!'" It's great to hold up signs and band together but if you become just another group of angry, screaming heads, you become no better than the other angry screaming heads. When I go to Pride events, it's always the bigotted Christians who have microphones and are screaming "repent repent" to all the gay folks walking by. The counter protesters are holding up huge banners and signs to block out the bigots and handing out literature that feature "safe spaces" and queer-positive resources to people, rather than screaming back at the megaphone. And in the end, the bigot ends up looking like an ass and the gay-friendly protesters look calm and rise above it all.

Maybe this isn't a good blog for me to comment on though because I'm a religious person (a Jew), and most people here seem to loathe religion (or at least religion that carries tradition with it). I'm also a moderate/centrist, not necessarily a liberal. I don't feel persecuted. I DEFINITELY don't think "I'm right and you're all wrong." I just feel uncomfortable. So maybe it's time I bow out. Less dissonance that way. It's like, if you go to a party and start to not like being there, you should probably leave.
posted by Emily K, at 10/04/2008 5:03 PM

Emily,

I don't loathe religion and have taken your comments very seriously. I look forward to you posting.

As far as shouting to get attention - yeah it works. ACT UP got attention and now more government spending goes to AIDS research, care, awareness (btw - AIDS is still occurring) - although - more women are affected by and die each year of breast cancer. How's that for watching out for your sisters?

Why any lesbian would spend more money and time on the AIDS issue and not breast,ovarian, cervical cancer - I don't know?
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 7:59 PM

Anonymous, we often hear how inclusive a party the GOP is. Well, my response to that is....over the past 30 years, can they name one piece of legislation that they've legislated in favor of women and equality for LGBT people? I can't name one. They were pretty silent at their convention too!
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/05/2008 8:46 AM

Thank you, Emily K, for agin confirming what I've been saying all along - elsewhere - that you gays for god types act as a hindrance to those who want to counter the anti-gay machine.
posted by Nelson G., at 10/05/2008 10:48 AM

I think pedophiles who like boys have done much worse to hold back the gay rights movement.

http://www.wikisposure.com/NG

Anonymous, thanks for the nice words. I can't speak for breast cancer vs. AIDS activism though - honestly I know nothing about how much lesbians spend on supporting one vs. the other.
posted by Emily K, at 10/05/2008 12:04 PM

Robert,

I'm not a Republican. Again - the stupid machine is out lumping everyone into the same box.

Emily,

The people here do not like God. As if you are not allowed to love God and be gay? That's sort of sooooo wrong on sooo many levels - I just cannot fathom. Take care.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 1:37 PM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 2:34 PM

With people like you, Emily, who needs enemies, right?

You're no different from Peter LaBarbera or Linda Harvey, AFAIC.

I may not be a former ex-gay or win awards for homo of the year, but it doesn't mean that the problems you/some of you faced is different from mine. Everything that happened before, during, and after was because of religion and homophobia.

For you or anyone else to think otherwise beyond ignorant and demonstrably hypocritical.

With the exception of Mr. Besen, at least I'm trying to do something about Prop 8, Emily; What the fuck are you doing?
posted by Nelson G., at 10/05/2008 2:55 PM

People like Robert and David have fallen into the xenophobic category - not liking any outsider. Same thing as homophobia except it is the homosexual doing the phobia. Tragedy - they are just like the conservative christians.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 4:07 PM

EMILY you should should stay and continue to offer your perspective on these issues! I do NOT think that disagreeing with the "prevailing wisdom" is a reason to "go". In fact, it is all the more reason to stay! Personally, I am hardly a liberal but am a mix of many views, and I think an energetic, even angry debate is a good thing.

Emily simply said that she prefers other methods over direct street activism. I think Wayne does too in fact, as the Internet is hardly the "street". It's just that in this case, seeing those Prop. 8 advocates shouting in front of his hotel about "saving our children" from "the gays and lesbians" was so profoundly offensive that it produced an immediate, unmistakable response, as emotional as thee opposing force which appeared that day. I think it was an appropriate countering, a balancing, in fact.
posted by Chris L., at 10/05/2008 5:28 PM

Joey,
Thus far, you have made accusations about a lot of people and none of it has been documented. Can you document Besen's Calendar for that day? What was he really doing??

I'm sure he won't be at all the gay bashing get togethers happening in America right now.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 6:52 PM

Joey,

I think you should check before you make accusations.

You are starting to sound like a little brat.

I'll be somewhere tonight and I highly doubt those that I wish would be there will be able to attend - due to other more personal concerns on their plates.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 7:14 PM

Better yet, go scream in his window.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 7:35 PM

Joey what in heaven's name are you talking about? Wayne is not a "liberal activist". Wayne has an objective which is largely about countering the ex-gay industry. The so-called "Straight Pride March" did not, as you suggest, happen. Cut and paste the entire thing for the news:

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/08/straight-pride-parade-attendance-zero.html

It looks like Wayne made a wise decision on where to expend the limited time and energy that his organization has. The straight pride march bombed and got no coverage whatsoever. However, Wayne's last two major trips (to Wasila, Alaska and Asheville, North Carolina) garnered considerable media attention and were huge successes. I think you should let Wayne stick to the activism part.
posted by Chris L., at 10/05/2008 7:56 PM

My, THAT touched NG's nerve. I bet he'll be posting about me on NGblog for the next year! You talk about someone's pedophilia and they get all upset...

In response to Joey7777's quip about the LCR together with "the Jews," it's all a crock of shit. I don't think i've ever met a republican Jew I could stand. Mostly the appeal of the GOP to Jews is the xenophobia and hawkish attitude taken as party platform. Iran's prez is a crazy person and a murderer but it's not enough to make me think the GOP is the "superior" party. The State of Israel is handling the situation with Iran very delicately, much more delicately than the GOP Jews over here - because they are SO CLOSE to Iran. They HAVE to be more careful than us. It's funny, when you live close enough, you realize the importance of diplomacy.

I support taking to the streets, but I don't support screaming matches at the opposing party. It's just a waste of energy to scream at people who've solidly made up their minds. I wouldn't waste an ounce of breath on Fred Phelps, for example.
posted by Emily K, at 10/05/2008 8:12 PM

Yes and after we defeat Prop. 8 in California, we'll stop paying attention to them, too.
posted by Chris L., at 10/05/2008 8:23 PM

Emily,

Neither would I.

Although ACT UP was a voice in teh 80's it did not stand the test of time and many people today find that they were a poor representation of the gay community - even gays. And what was more important were the pride parades and the activism in the community to take care of it's members, the involvement of churches - not just affirming churches, and so on. Also, let's not forget the money folks. He who gets the cure first wins - BIG MONEY!!! In addition, there were foreign competitors for that money - does anyone remember the Frech?

Also, among the important details into the AIDS Awareness programs is that it did effect other groups - hemophiliacs, etc.. Aaaannnnddddd, let's remember that lawsuits that discriminated against a person because of an illness took precedence over those because of a person's sexuality. And that is one of the stronghold legal cornerstones of the gay rights movement.

So, while ACT UP thought it was effective - the hero title really belongs to the lawyers, the families, etc... who fought on behalf of the AIDS patients. When Reagan left office AIDS was still "new" to us. Finally, changes did occur. It took death to a lot of people to count. ACT UP may have been there - but there were sooooo many other vital, unsung players in this field.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 8:27 PM

Don't stop there, Emily; keep going. You're making my job so easy in proving you a poser. Come the end of the day, it will be you who has disgraced the integrity of Wayne Besen and XGW, not me.
posted by Nelson G., at 10/05/2008 8:43 PM

I guess calling someone out on being a pedophile - a convicted pedophile - and a pro-pedophilia activist - is the same thing as being a poseur these days.

It's not a matter of disagreeing with "the common wisdom" or however it was phrased, it's just a general feeling of discomfort that for posting a moderate view, or one that's more to the right than the absolute left (the center??) I will be pegged as another Theo or even another Joey7777. That's just a spot I'd rather not be in.
posted by Emily K, at 10/05/2008 8:59 PM

Emily,

Stick to your guns. God made you - YOU!! It is people just like you who are going to keep conservative christians accountable to scripture and how they interpret the language.XGW should be thankful for someone like you - but I , too, have found that pedophilia or pedastery (then new name - btw pedestary today is defined very differently than in Grecian times) is a big impasse to gay rights. These creatures are trying to normalize their behavior and tag it onto gay lives which I find deplorable and so should every gay or lesbian in the nation.

Nelson G sounds like a proponent or supporter of pedophelia. Makes you wonder who among the gay crowd is really gay and who is hiding out but is really into children. Yes, that still gets whispered at the dinner table because - people know they do.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 11:03 PM

Anonymous the LIAR and delusionist, self-loathing closet case, you can't even be honest about who you are....you choose an "anonymous" identity and sometimes use Theo and a few others. What is it you fear that you can't use your real name? You're so transparent and a loser! Wayne can testify to my name by my check to Truth Win Out, that will arrive either tomorrow or wednesday. Where's yours?

Nobody believes anything you say, you're outnumbered, pal!
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/06/2008 7:58 AM

Anonymous @ 11:03,

Watch out, now he'll be blogging about YOU for the next year!

Nelson mentioned my being "upset" over his "calling me out" on my "rant" or something or other. Guess what I was ranting about? Pedophilia! So of course, being a pedophile, he took issue with that and felt he should "call me out" on ranting about an activity I find despicable. (btw, he has yet to say "no I'm not a pedophile" - b/c he can't deny that fact.)

I'm glad sites like Wikisposure.com were set up. That way pedophile activists like Nelson don't have free range to commit crimes.

Honestly, he can lust after young boys all he wants as long as he doesn't commit any crimes. I just find it ironic that he singled me out to say I was being detrimental to the movement.
posted by Emily K, at 10/06/2008 11:43 AM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 11:51 AM

Anonymous, you have no friends here, nobody agrees with anything you say. I'LL LIE AGAIN AND SAY I WAS WRONG ABOUT PALIN OK? There, still not good enough, pal?

Folks, do you agree with Anonymous, me aside of course?
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/06/2008 12:20 PM

Emily,

Thank you for standing up. Here you are, a grown woman, obviously educated, and a lesbian. And the Nelson dude - instead of saying you are wrong about his pedophelia calls you names - like bi-polar bitch to distract the rest of us. Well, that's an old tactic of the conservative right - name calling instead of discussing the issue. He would rather call you names. And by the way his misogyny is showing. Men always refer to women as bi polar bitches when they don't like us. Take that to a liberal, gay sensitive human recourse manager and you could have a field day.

Here's the other point, not one man here is willing to step up and confront Nelson G on his sexual appetites. That's scarey. What if they had a son? What if they were molested by men as children? Doesn't anyone see anything wrong here?
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 12:45 PM

Nelson G,

You sully the reputation of gays everywhere.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 12:46 PM

Errrr, I have been in lots of gay bars and clubs, etc., and never, even one time, has any gay guy even hinted that he likes "little boys". If it were to happen, he'd be 86ed in a second, I do believe, or at least people would "move away" from him in disgust. Trust me, there is no connection here.
posted by Chris L., at 10/06/2008 1:28 PM

Move away??? What about confronting him they we confront ohters who walk all over gay rights??

Move away - what a passive statment.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 2:15 PM

Message From IT Support Team

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Thank you for your patience.
posted by Wayne Besen, at 10/06/2008 8:52 PM

Why is it that so many people choose to associate pedophilia soley with a gay orientation? What about the straight pedophile? According to some psychologists and criminologists, they far outnumber gay pedophiles in terms of actual crime statistics of this nature. It seems as if there is a doublestandard, the gay pedophile is sensationalized while the straight pedophile's sexual orientation doesn't come into play, let alone mentioned. From my limited knowledge of the subject, many pedophiles are gender neutral and will prey on whoever is within their vile reach.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/07/2008 8:24 AM

Ooops, excuse the typo in my last comment. I meant to have used "solely" instead of soley, my apologies.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/07/2008 8:25 AM

Yes, I said that people would "move away" from him, as a factual statement meaning that that's what people would do, they would move away from him. Ideally, yes indeed, he should be confronted, but reporting on what I think would actually happen is not a "weak statement" because I am not advocating that as the solution. That's just what would happen.
posted by Chris L., at 10/07/2008 12:03 PM

Nelson G said "As I noted elsewhere, I have and will always continue to take responsibility for my actions.".

You're being vague and dancing around this issue. Are you acknowledging that you had in the past been involved in pedophelia as Emily suggested? It seems that way to me.

Nelson said "However, I had help, alot of help going down that avenue, thanks to many of you.".

This seems to contradict your previous statement that you take responsiblity for your actions. No one forced you to get involved in pedophilia, least of all the people here.

Nelson said "I've done my time, I've denounced my involvement in that support and fellowship forum and that's how it's going to remain, regardless of what people think.".

Once again, if you want to denounce your involvement how about coming right out and saying involvment in what, a pedophilia support and fellowship forum? You're not really denouncing your involvment if you're not telling us in what exactly.

Nelson said "But I've no fucking problem contacting the owners of that forum and asking them to provide me with the logon records, because I can guarantee you that it's going to get really quiet around here when I start naming names. Don't think so? Try me.".

I don't think so, I'm trying you. If as you seem to be suggesting this was a pedophilia forum I seriously doubt the owners are going to voluntarily give you any logon records.

If you're renouncing your past involvment in what you seem to be renouncing how about you come out and say directly what it is instead of dancing around the topic.
posted by Priya Lynn, at 10/07/2008 4:01 PM

Considering I was always an out and proud gay, that I never once had an issue with my own sexuality, and that I never sought ex-gay therapy or spent a dime on anything related to ex-gay therapy, I'd say my hands are pretty clean.

Yeah, go get the logon records. I know I'M not in them, since I'm not a pedophile. My name and photograph and blog records aren't on a pedophile watch site.

Nelson is right about one thing, there is no such thing as a gay pedophile. You are either a pedophile, or you are gay. What a telling statement.

I think I'm gonna do what Pam Spaulding does at PHB and make an "award" for my blog that says "NG thinks I'm a bi polar bitch!" lol.

Wayne btw I think you made an excellent decision to make this blog registered only. I fully support this move. You are probably inconveniencing no one but the cowardly and the closeted.
posted by Emily K, at 10/07/2008 6:19 PM

Thanks, Emily.

Too many angry people with an agenda were posting. We will take any additional steps to keep off these individuals.
posted by Wayne Besen, at 10/07/2008 7:26 PM

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