Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Friday, October 03, 2008

Biden had a solid debate. Under normal circumstances he would have been declared the winner. However, the expectations for Sarah Palin were so minimal, that all she had to do was keep from getting laughed off of the stage to declare victory. The bar for the Alaskan was lower than an ant's underbelly - so it was a hurdle she overcame.

Still, Palin looked stiff as a totem pole and completely programed. Scripted Sarah often did not even answer the question asked and seemed unsteady. She repeatedly lied about Obama's record. However, as the debate went on she got a bit stronger.

Biden was articulate and knowledgeable. I wish he would have selectively attacked her dismal record as Alaska's governor to try to score a knockout punch. However, Biden can be proud of his performance and he looked presidential. He also gets points for tearing up when talking about his family. It seemed like a real moment that voters could connect with - and it worked. The fact that Palin did not acknowledge Biden's pain when he wept made her look like a robot that lacked empathy. Still, she looked better than she did in her recent TV interview fiascos.

Bottom line: both candidates accomplished what they needed from this debate. Draw.

47 Comments:

Reading from a teleprompter as Palin did last night does not make for a debate. It was merely a Q & A session, nothing more. Since when does genuine debate involve scripts and teleprompters and no confrontation? Just look at the sessions of the British parliament and see what debate is all about, no teleprompters, no rehearsals, no preparation, no scripts. There were no surprises, no knockouts, nobody won. Lets see how Palin's sudden turnaround on giving some rights to gay couples fares with her right wing base who want no semblance of equality for us.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/03/2008 8:20 AM

Yes I recall the gay marriage issue, she kinda said she would give gay rights, BUT she did'nt seem to give a straight answer as Biden did. What concerns me is alot of people did'nt really pay much attention to the gay marriage issue,alot of republicans still don't personaly know gay people to really feel effected by it,some would discard the whole issue by saying Economy is most important and if McCain/Palin can fix that then all is well and the hell with us. I don't feel this way, it's just that I think alot of republicans do.
posted by Ken, at 10/03/2008 10:03 AM

To those who think Biden came across as an old fart: you got it wrong! McCain is the king of old farts. Joe Biden was articulate, factual, and to the point. He showed a vast knowledge of the issues and had total control of his delivery. He even sounded and appeared presidential! Compare that to the gushing, colloquial, folksy, cute, bimbo-weather girl moose BBQ'd burger approach of Sarah Palin, who didn't answer most of the questions directly but kept repeating herself over and over. Are Americans going to fall for the spouted idiocies of the cute VP candidate or are we going to confront the issues that face us today?
richard schillen
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 10:38 AM

was there a teleprompter? I didn't know that. I thought they had note cards.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 10:44 AM

Uh, when did Palin ever say she would give any kind of gay rights? I heard she mindlessly repeated "I believe marriage is one man and one woman", even when asked whether she would support civil unions.

She sounds like every other insane, backwards, conservative Christian.

And Ken, I think almost everyone knows a gay person. We're everywhere. But we're less likely to come out around Republicans, for obvious reasons. And in conservative towns it is downright dangerous for us to come out.

Republicans have gay friends and families too, they're just totally clueless about it.
posted by eshto, at 10/03/2008 11:49 AM

Palin is a joke--purely and simply a joke. I'm not a Republican--never have been--but if I were, I would be ashamed that McCain picked this BIMBO as a running mate. Surely there are articulate, educated Republican women out there. So, who does McCain pick? A bitch whose big acoomplishments are having 5 kids and shooting moose. My late mother, before a series of strokes finally took her mind, could have named a half dozen publications she read on a daily or weekly basis. After her little fiasco with Katie Couric, I would be totally ashamed were I a Republican. I know some inttelligent, articulate Republicans, and whilst we don't see eye to eye, we can still have interesting conversations. Maybe Sarah could give me some recipes for those moose seh's shot?

Biden clearly took the debate. Even as an elederly man, he showed more energy and "with it-ness" than Paling who is at several years his junior.

How the hell stupid does a person have to be to be unable to name several magazines and papers that are read on a regular basis. Even if s/he hasn't read any, s/he should be able to come up with some names.

It's not just enough to be "hot" (as some people have claimed) to be VP (though I honestly don't consider Palin to be "hot")--it takes someone who is up to date on world events, someone who can step into the President's shoes should the need arise.

Her inexperience might not be an insurmountable obstacle if she made an effort to know what is going on in the world. Advisers could be of help to her in areas where she has no experience (problem is, she has no serious real experience--normally, experience comes with time in office.

Obama may not have a ton of experience (though certainly more thanPalin), but he comes across as informed, articulate, and interested in the world around him. He will, of necessity, get Presidential experience as President, but he sure as hell has a LOT more going for him than Palin has going for her.

It is dangerious to have an idiot like Palin a heartbeat from the Presidency--ignorant as she is, she might well end up using the "nuclear option"--and that would be an epic tragedy for everyone on Earth.

I definitely hope that McCain-Palin do not win. Too much is at stake
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 12:41 PM

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: [!!!!!] No. [!!!!!] Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.

The bottom line though is, and I'm glad to hear the governor, I take her at her word, obviously, that she think there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that's the case, we really don't have a difference.

IFILL: Is that what your said?

PALIN: Your question to him was whether he supported gay marriage and my answer is the same as his and it is that I do not.

IFILL: Wonderful. You agree.

That's all I needed to hear. Forget Obama/Biden. I'm voting third party.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 12:43 PM

In the debate Biden said the strangest and most ill-informed thing I have ever heard about Lebanon in my life. Nobody has ever kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Not the United States. Nor France. Not Israel. And not the Lebanese. Nobody.

Joe Biden has literally no idea what he's talking about.

It's too bad debate moderator Gwen Ifill didn't catch him and ask a follow up question: "When did the United States and France kick Hezbollah out of Lebanon?"

Like many who watched the debate, I was bracing myself for Palin to say something off-putting about foreign policy. She's the one who needed the crash course, allegedly; Biden is supposedly Mr. Foreign Policy. He's supposed to be the experienced elder statesman Senator Barack Obama chose to help him govern and fill in some of his knowledge and experience gaps. He's supposed to know far more about foreign policy than she does.

Clearly not the case.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 1:16 PM

Wayne, you should add another post called Biden vs. Biden on Clean Coal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjx8RnDfdvM
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 1:35 PM

Joe Biden gave the best debate of his career. He was eloquent and informed, not to mention concise and intelligent. Governor Palin barely managed to hold her own. There was simply no comparison.

As for politicians and gay marriage, politicians do NOT lead the way on this issue. It's up to US to change the playing field, and then the politicians will follow afterwards.

If we defeat Proposition 8 in California, for example, we'll start to see politicians come around nationally, but there's no need to be dismayed by the fact that we, not the politicians, will have to win marriage on our own before it gets broad support.
posted by Chris L., at 10/03/2008 2:54 PM

Anonymous...yes, she was reading from a teleprompter. I was under the impression that it wasn't going to be the case, but it was. Clearly, this was not a debate in light of that. You could actually see her eyes reading line by line, she was rambling much too fast for it to have been off the top of her "airhead".

By the way, Biden, Obama and Clinton all confuse religious marriage with civil marriage which is why they can't get their heads around it. Their personal religious beliefs emerge when they reject the notion of civil marriage for same-sex couples. There is absolutely no religious component inherent in the civil verson and neither is procreation a necessary reason to marry in a civil ceremony. Nobody is asking religious denominations to perform same-sex marriages and they should stay out of it and mind their own business. All three of them as well as the entire GOP will be on the wrong side of history decades from now when other countries will have surpassed us on equality, 7 countries so far, and growing.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/03/2008 3:14 PM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/03/2008 9:23 PM

The Washington Post's Ruth Marcus:

Sen. Joseph Biden was illogical on the matter of gay rights...

"Look, in an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple," Biden said in answer to a question about whether he supported equal benefits for same-sex couples. He went on to invoke the Constitution three more times. "The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution...same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That's only fair."

And, "It's what the Constitution calls for. And so we do support it. We do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, their rights of visitation, their rights to insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do."

Biden cannot actually mean what he says - because the implications of his statement contradicts his (and Barack Obama's) asserted position opposing marriage for same-sex couples. (They support civil unions, which Biden forgot to mention.) Alternatively, he may mean what he says - but simply be unwilling to acknowledge that the consequence of that view is that the constitution protects the right of same-sex couples to marry. Either way, it's inconsistent to make the argument that there is a constitutional right to be free of discrimination as a gay or lesbian person and to oppose gay marriage.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 2:27 AM

Theo, AJ, Ethan and Anonymous the all-in-one gay-baiting neocon hater, YOU are the liar, delusional and an idiot. You seem to be addicted to gay blogsites...so why don't you do yourself a huge favor and come out of that oppressive closet you've been living in all your life.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/04/2008 6:19 AM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 11:40 AM

Theo, AJ, Ethan...FYI....Ed Schultz of 1600 AM Air America stated Palin was reading from a teleprompter, so don't call me a liar, you twit!You could see she was....her eyes were glued to the camera 99.9% of the time. She rushed her script and it was apparent this airhead was more than nervous. The only time she took her gaze from the screen was when she rambled on about energy, the only thing she's familiar with.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/04/2008 12:39 PM

Theo, AJ, Anonymous..and another thing, stop acting like a schoolboy cry baby when you can't get your way. Grow up! McCain has been caught out on almost every allegation against Obama and Biden and its on record. Ron Kuby a renowned civil rights lawyer of Air America went through the entire list during this past week and actually played or read from official transcripts made by both candidates and their running mates. McCain and those who support him, people like you are the liars. We've had 8 years of lies and cheating from the current regime and you expect Mr. Deregulator McCain or Palin to be any different? They wouldn't know what honesty was if it stared them in the face.

By the way, regarding Palin and the teleprompter, take it up with Ed Schultz.

Nobody here gives a flying f--k if you copy or comment negatively on anything I say, you do that anyway to everyone here. Rant all you want closet case, you'll never win on here. And other thing, the term "liberals" is a classic, negative neocon word....we're called "progressives", get used to it.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/04/2008 12:53 PM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/04/2008 8:02 PM

Anonymous (Theo, AJ, Ethan), blah blah blah. You're the one that is in the closet, you twit! You're that scared you deliberately use an "Anonymous" identity thinking you are trying to sew division by confusing us with the other Anonymous who happens to be very nice. It is YOU who is in the closet, quite apparent. Why don't you run along to the Log Cabin website, you'll find a lot more sympathy there, and you'll be among your own kind, the self-loathers. When you're outnumbered here, you resort to name calling and brow-beating that only demonstrates your insecurity and desperation, classic neocon m.o.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/05/2008 8:57 AM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/05/2008 11:22 AM

Wayne, for the time being I would like to ask that you delete any post that looks even remotely like it came from Theo, AJ, Ethan. Being banned from this site is making him livid. God knows what he is capable of. Please delete the suspected posts until such time as it appears that this site is purged of him.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 1:31 AM

Anonymous, LIAR and fraud....yeah, I bet you contacted Ed Schultz! Even if I admitted I were wrong, it still would not be good enough for you, you try to spin things around, typical neocon m.o. as usual, and so predictable. Get a new script and get a life you idiot. You're like a spoiled brat, can't get his own way so you slander and insult people and expect that anyone here is gullible enough to buy your spin and crap. Notice nobody is coming to your defense, except of course when you resort to your other aliases.
posted by Robert, NYC., at 10/06/2008 8:03 AM

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at 10/06/2008 11:54 AM

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Foetus writing brush，belly button chapter，send pictures

posted by ETON, at 3/27/2009 2:33 PM

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posted by 用品, at 3/30/2009 8:51 AM