Friday, November 07, 2008
Read Column on The Huffington PostI can understand why white gay people are angry. I certainly am. But, let's take a step back and look at this dispassionately. I believe our failure with
the African American vote (70% voted in favor of Prop. 8) has more to do with
education levels than race. In general, people with lower levels of education - of any race - do not vote for gay rights. White people are twice as likely to graduate college as black people. This accounts
for the difference by race on Prop. 8.
Think of it this way. 57 percent of white people with a college education voted No on Prop. 8. Yet, 58 percent of white people with no college voted yes on 8. In other words, uneducated urban black people vote very much like uneducated rural white people.
Uneducated people - black, white and Hispanic - often derive their power from physical strength. They perceive being gay as weak and antithetical to real manhood. By voicing support for gay rights, they lose status and often fear rivals may perceive them as gay. The easiest way to gain status is dissing faggots. I see this attitude all the time in Brooklyn - in the gym and on the basketball court, where I often play. (Not the best sample, I realize this)
Meanwhile, educated people of all races gain power by outsmarting opponents - not beating them up. This creates a safe space to support gay rights and not lose social status. (Unfortunately, the fact that the conservative black church is a central organizing point for politics makes even educated blacks less likely to vote for gay rights. But, this is secondary to education levels.)
It is understandable that black support for anti-gay efforts drives white gay people nuts. It is difficult to understand how people affected by bigotry can promote bigotry - as if they are selfish people who learned all the wrong lessons from the civil rights movement. But, remember, uneducated people - of all races - are not students of history. They react to the environment around them, which often rewards homophobia.
(Compounding this perception problem is that the vast majority of overt homophobia experienced by urban gays comes from black people. In places like New York City, you almost never hear a white person say "faggot". But, we hear this from uneducated blacks too often. This makes the problem seem worse than it is. We often forget that we moved to places like New York to escape uneducated whites in rural areas that were just as openly homophobic. In other words - it is about education - not race.)
A few of possible solutions to ponder:1) We must air public service announcements with people like former basketball star Charles Barkley - who is a tough guy and supporter of same-sex marriage. We must show masculine African American figures who are supportive, every chance we get. Obama is also a huge help, because he is inclusive and is the ultimate example of power though academic success. His leadership will improve our fate.
2) We must work to raise the education levels of all Americans - which will lead to less homophobia of all races. The fact that we have so many African Americans in prison - and not graduating is a legacy of racism and a national disgrace. This must change.
3) We must also have substantive discussion with the African American community - as many of you have suggested. But, until we raise education levels, there is only so much we can do to win support of urban blacks - or rural whites. In other words, scholarships for urban blacks and rural whites are as effective as spending money on education specifically about gay rights. Keep this in mind.
4) While I recognize that there are many supportive pro-gay black churches, as long as this is the central organizing place for black politics, this is not helpful for gay rights. Alternative organizing places for aspiring black leaders must be strengthened.
These are my thoughts....I'm certainly open to your ideas and especially your criticism of my theory, as I am most concerned in figuring out how to succeed in the future.
38 Comments:
Wayne, are you kidding me? There is so much to do in the legal arena that will take up enough time. I am not interested in enlightening everyone so that i may have the same rights as them. And i am unapologetic for that.
posted by mail, at
11/07/2008 12:35 PM
It is a long-term struggle. Do not forget that.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
11/07/2008 12:40 PM
a long term struggle that belongs in the courts not on the ballot for the exact reason you intonate. Equality should not be doled out to the chosen few by majority vote. I understand your point though as i can tell you do mine.
posted by mail, at
11/07/2008 12:53 PM
I am with you to some extent, mail. It is galling to think that all these backwards individuals have to gain some sort of enlightenment.
However, Wayne does have a point. If there are black celebrities out there who stand with us, we need to see if they are willing to do public service announcements in support of same sex-marriage. Samuel L. Jackson made a great start with his "No on 8" ad. Unfortunately it came out a bit too late, I think, to be really helpful. If we could have more people like Mr. jackson in our corner, it could go a long way towards helping black people see that same sex-marriage is not the bugbear that some of their religious leaders have made it out to be.
I am sure that education has a fair bit to do with black homophobia, but also their ideas of masculinity and femininity play into it as well (ditto for Latinos).
I am still quite miffed that the black community voted against our right so overwhelmingly this past Tuesday. But, as galling as that defeat is, it is now the past, and we need to come up with ways to make same-sex marriage more positive in the eyes of the minority communities in California and elsewhere.
posted by Merlyn, at
11/07/2008 12:56 PM
Merlyn: I do not cater to black ignorance by propping up a black celebrity and find it insulting and ineffective if Elton John or Ru Paul was thrown in my face as a reason to do something. That is an additional method at best. I refuse to cater to the feelings of people who refuse me what they take for granted. I want equal status and i am not asking anyone for it. We need to demand it as a right taken for granted by those that are so willing to take it away from us and keep for themselves. We are dealing with chrisianity here. A black man walked into a court room in the 1600s and professed to be a full person because he was a baptized person. This forced the question of chattel vs humanity. Black evangelicals are in no way going to change their feelings on this religion that they now have distorted to deny us equality. It is not going to happen and we cannot waste our time with them. To the courts!!!! the only way forward. Take their own example and throw in their faces.
posted by mail, at
11/07/2008 1:34 PM
We should go to the courts. But, this is a multi-pronged, decades long struggle. We must use many tactics to get us to the finish line.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
11/07/2008 1:37 PM
you are right. you are all right and so am i. ok i am angry. this is true.
posted by mail, at
11/07/2008 1:52 PM
Wayne, you said..."In places like New York City, you almost never hear a white person say "faggot".
Do you really believe that? I live in Bayside, Queens, I've heard that term used far too often by young white people on the street. This past July, my partner and I were at a family bbq in Staten Island. We are both out to our families. My partner's nephew's wife who is white called out to her 7 year old son who was having a problem getting into a swimming pool...."Joey....don't be like a fag, just jump in.". It was a breath-taking experience, we were both speechless. I was about to take off on her, but my partner persuaded me to stay quiet and not upset the party. I'm sure this kind of thing happens everywhere in New York City and not confined to uneducated white New Yorkers either.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
11/07/2008 1:53 PM
Robert:
I almost never hear this from white people in New York. But, I live in Brooklyn Heights and used to live in Park Slope. Which, brings me to the point of education levels.
You may have a different experience in your neighborhood.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
11/07/2008 2:26 PM
Excellent insight Wayne, I think you've explained a lot. Thanks for giving me a new understanding of the bigotry of so many black people.
posted by Priya Lynn, at
11/07/2008 2:39 PM
I think Wayne's analysis is excellent and spot-on. Due to many factors (some of which are not their fault and some that are), the black community and many minority communities, in fact, do not enjoy the education levels of white Americans.
A great deal of education is required in order to understand the gay issue. Bigotry is evolutionarily natural to the human species. I remember when I was a young teenager, before I realized I was gay. My mother told me that two of her male friends were "homosexual", and I responded, "Well that's terrible, a man should be with a woman and a woman with a man!" Only education reveals the absurdity of that childish statement. One must be taught the truth about gays and lesbians; enlightenment isn't a default position.
There are long-term aspects to this struggle and short-term considerations as well. If we could simply go to the courts and defeat the lesser enlightened, I'd say fine, let's get the victory and to hell with the dump people; let them stew in their own ignorance. But if that short-term strategy doesn't work, we must indeed engage communities of color.
I must admit, however, that I am truly sickened and disgusted by those who, as Wayne correctly points out, think homophobia is a good cover for their lack of confidence in their own manhood and masculinity.
In fact, homophobia is the currency of the real sissy; of the man who is truly insecure about his own masculinity; who is so fragile in it that he thinks a mere slip of the tongue could cause him to be cast as weaker or less than. Thinking of oneself as being so close to the verge of being labeled as unmanly, merely for respecting people who are different, is quite revealing, indeed. Bigotry is the harbinger of the real girlie man.
posted by Chris L., at
11/07/2008 3:13 PM
Hi Wayne
Race was the deciding factor in Florida's fight to defeat Amendment 2 as well. I'm very angry and devastated that the people who were most oppressed by bigotry, prejudice and discrimination became the biggest oppressors in our fight to defeat Amendment 2.
I worked Florida's early voting polls from the first day to the last and Nov 4th. Your point that a voter's education, determined how they voted was right on. With the long lines of voters, which well exceeded the 100 no solicitation boundary, it gave me the opportunity to speak to hundreds and hundreds of voters face to face. It was obvious there was a large discrepancy between Caucasian and African American voters knowledge of the vague and ambivalently worded Amendment 2. I found the majority of African American voters actually believed the Amendment was about making same-gender marriage legal in Florida.
Given the opportunity to dispel the misinformation being spewed by pastors from the pulpit and YesOn2 propaganda machine. I did see some African American voters finally got it. Once they saw this could strip domestic partners benefits and rights from unmarried heterosexual couples and they were the majority, they were opposed to this. On Nov 4th., we targeted precincts in African American neighborhoods. If we could have spoken to every African American voter, perhaps the results would have been different.
Unfortunately, the biggest obstacle we all encountered and couldn't overcome no matter what we said. Was the belief the GLBT civil rights movement was not the same as our African American brothers and sitters. Many blatantly refused to see the correlation between the two and accused of us of trying to piggy-back their civil rights struggle.
In Peace & Pride
Zeke
R. Zeke Fread
Fairness For All Families - Vote No On 2 South Tampa Bay Steering Committee Captain
Director Pride Tampa Bay
posted by Zeke, at
11/07/2008 3:17 PM
Excellent post, Wayne, as usual.
I agree that we have to use whatever methods we can to educate people and to help individuals not only get past their homophobia but their internalized homophobia for those who are themselves homosexual and ashamed (on the down low). This is true with all races, of course.
I was struck by the fact that the media characterized the gay community as being "disappointed" in the results such as the passage of Prop 8. I would think "outraged" would be a better way to describe our feelings, but of course we gays are perceived as being "soft." A more militant approach such as in the post-Stonewall days might be more appropriate. [One guy had a point in that the days of asking -- begging -- for our rights are over!]
One last comment. The guy who heard a relative use the term "fag" -- to a child no less -- should have taken her aside and told her off in no uncertain terms.
Being polite or "wimpy" -- no disrespect to that guy intended -- really won't get us anywhere.
posted by Bill Samuels, at
11/07/2008 3:50 PM
Wayne, thank you.
posted by Phoenix, at
11/07/2008 4:06 PM
Your theory may be right, but I just don't care anymore. I'm tired of being asked to understand everyone else, to be patient, to wait, to work within the system. In a way, I feel the way I do BECAUSE Obama was elected. My euphoria and sense of hope has already been dashed on the pointy rocks of reality. Enough already! If I have to wait until everyone understands gay rights, we'll never get anything! There were plenty of uneducated, ignorant whites around when civil rights legislation passed, and there are still plenty of idiot whites who said they would never vote for a (half) black man. By your rationale, maybe Obama should have demured and not entered the race. Screw it! I'm fed up!
posted by Riverwolf,, at
11/07/2008 5:18 PM
Discrimination is literally killing me. I have had enough.
PLEASE DO NOT WAIT:
http://gaytaxprotest.blogspot.com/2008/11/please-do-not-wait.html
posted by John Bisceglia, at
11/08/2008 12:50 AM
What a condescending article. So blacks don't know any better because they are poor and educated? So what. I give them more credit than that. A majority of them are just homophobes. Wayne's article is the same typical stuff being written on the so called "progressive" blogs (because they have been shamed into using liberal) blame gays, blame whites, blame mormons, blame evangelicals. But do not ever blame blacks, for they know not what they do. How typical and how disappointing.
posted by Dave, at
11/08/2008 7:18 AM
Since when does government issue marriage licenses based on religious principles, the one man one woman mantra? Isn't there a conflict there between church and state? If religious bigots want a religious ceremony let them have it by all means, but without a government issued license. Let the religious cults or denominations issue them and register their marriages with the government. Civil marriage has NO religious component, huge difference.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
11/08/2008 8:45 AM
Bill Samuels.....it wasn't about being wimpy at all. I avoided confronting her on the side out of respect for my partner who is not confrontational. I did however mention it to his niece who hosted the bbq and who is totally supportive of LGBT equality. She called this woman on it over the phone several days later. No apology was forthcoming but instead expressed her right to her opinions. We feel sorry for the children she is raising who will grow up to be haters just as their mother is, a college-educated woman at that.
posted by Robert, NYC., at
11/08/2008 10:02 AM
As a black woman, I can attest that it WAS much less smart seeming people who voted Yes.
I argued with a black bishop here in Los Angeles, who voted yes, reiterated to me information that was all from anti gay propaganda and not empirical evidence from experience.
Fear has fertile ground in the ignorant.
And that this man (who said he'd experience discrimination) couldn't see the historic parallels of institutional discrimination was unforgivably ignorant.
His fallback rationale always came to the Bible.
So I reminded him that it wasn't the Bible that eliminated slavery and Jim Crow, it wasn't the Bible that protected the rights of women and children, nor was it the Bible that expanded the freedom to religious expression or none.
That it was ALL from the protections brought by the Constitution and even now, he and his ilk were using the Constitution, not the Bible to take away rights from committed and free gay citizens.
Every time I brought up some inconvenient truths, he changed the subject.
Perhaps I outclassed him in education, even a bishop.
So I don't have a problem with this analysis of education being the defining factor.
And this is why people this ignorant and vulnerable to defamation, shouldn't have the power of the popular vote against a traditionally suspect class.
posted by Regan DuCasse, at
11/08/2008 11:00 AM
Regan...well said. Majority rule is one of the essential principles of democracy and a hallmark of which the American constitution was written. Without majority rule the framers believed that the country would be subjected to a tyrannical government which is what they wanted to be free of but they also needed to protect the minority.
To better understand majority rule and minority rights we need to observe the definitions of each. First, majority rule is the concept that policies will be determined by what the majority of the people decides. While this majority of the people decide for everyone ( including minorities) there have been laws set forth in the Constitution that protect the basic rights of minorities regardless of race, gender, religious affiliation or sexual preference. Secondly, minority rights are the basic rights attributed to certain minority groups to ensure that they attain equality and have a voice in political decisions even when the majority wins over them. These two are related to each other in that the framers designed the American government to restrict or impede the majority from hindering or taking away the rights of the minority. These two have a distinct relationship in its government even though they seem opposite of each other, because even though the majority has a higher voice in the society the minority cannot have their rights taken away from them. We can see the basic principles of majority rule, minority rights in the amendments to the constitution, but that's for another discussion
posted by Robert, NYC., at
11/08/2008 11:58 AM
An irony of this is that the biggest group opposing the initiative is the Mormon Church, which is venomously racist.
posted by libhom, at
11/08/2008 1:51 PM
Wayne,
This is the best column I have read in a long time. The right-wing made ignorance a badge of honor in this campaign, and i think your piece helps to show why.
posted by Jim and Brenda Johnson, at
11/09/2008 9:43 AM
I think it is all about education. The more educated a people are, the less they tend to believe in magic books and supernatural best friends, i.e. fundamental religions. Why is Europe and many other countries ahead of the US in gay rights? Their educational systems are better and they're less subjugated by religions. Increase education, get rid of evangelicals trying to run your life based upon the books from thousands of years ago, and gay rights won't even be an issue.
Tim
posted by Tim, at
11/09/2008 6:53 PM
Tim, exactly. What always amazes me is that much of Europe has state religion, yet many of its countries were able to enact equality legislation including the right to marry in four of them thus far, soon to be five. I just don't understand why we in America aren't ahead of the game, in fact leading it. Spain was breath-taking, never would I have imagined it would have succeeded in passing marriage equality, a miracle if ever there were with the mighty power of the RC cult opposing it. Astonishing!
posted by Robert, NYC., at
11/10/2008 9:04 AM
As I'm writing this comment, already in NY state, christian pastors, conservative republicans and democrats are meeting to thwart NY state from being the third to pass marriage equality. I only hope we don't have a repeat of proposition 8, it could very well happen. Its now more important than ever for activism. Perhaps we too should push for a proposition to remove tax-exempt status of all religious groups or denominations in every state election that advocate for and financially support campaigns to influence the outcome of equality legislation. It is illegal to do so and in violation of the tax code. Out of state hate groups should also be barred from contributing donations.
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